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Huawei hid business operation in Iran after Reuters reported links to CFO
- sct202 6y agoI think it's amazing that out of all the things Huawei has been accused of doing the thing that got them officially in trouble is reselling American servers.
- jorblumesea 6y agoIt wasn't ever going to be IP theft, corporate espionage or anything like that. The CCP has made it clear they have no will to enforce anything like that. Most likely, most of Huawei's behavior is state sanctioned anyways. They have close but opaque connections to the government, and China has been known to support domestic industries with government actions. Pretty much the only way they were ever going to be punished is if they did something like this.
- yorwba 6y ago> The CCP has made it clear they have no will to enforce anything like that. Could you point me to an official statement to that effect? Patent infringement lawsuits in China definitely paint a different picture: foreign companies are more likely to win and awarded higher damages than Chinese companies: https://patentlyo.com/patent/2018/02/things-infringement-litigation.html https://patentlyo.com/patent/2018/02/things-infringement-lit...
- EricE 6y ago"Could you point me to an official statement to that effect?" LMAO - are you for real? That article still doesn't exactly paint a rosey picture - and that's if you can believe the numbers they release. If they are willing to lie substantially about something as serious as a virus do you seriously think they are going to be 100% transparent about something that could wreak their economy?
- yorwba 6y agoThose are not "numbers they release". They are statistics collected by a researcher who read court proceedings of 1663 patent infringement cases decided in China in 2014. (EDIT: Originally said "all" cases and "between 2014 and 2018". As virtue3 points out below, that was incorrect). It's not something that can be manipulated by just changing a number in a spreadsheet.
- virtue3 6y agoSee Chao Ma, Xiaohong Yu & Haibo He, Data Analysis: Report on the Publication of Chinese Judicial Decisions on the Internet, China Law Review 12(4), 2016: 208. (Table 10 lists the ratios of the number of judicial documents of each province publicly available on CJO to the number of cases adjudicated in each province, ranging from 15.17% to 78.14%.) So cherry-picked cases that range from 15-78% of the data set. 1.6k patent cases over multiple years seems -extremely- low to me. The USA has roughly 3-4x that per year. https://law.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Revised-Stanford-August-4-2016-Class-Presentation.pdf https://law.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Revised-...
- yorwba 6y ago> So cherry-picked cases that range from 15-78% of the data set. That's a fair point, although what kind of case would be a "cherry" is not clear to me. Both a foreign company winning (implying that patent infringement happened) and losing (possibly feeding suspicion that the judicial system is biased against foreigners) could end up making China look bad. > 1.6k patent cases over multiple years seems -extremely- low to me. My mistake. When I checked the blog post by the author of the paper for a date range, I thought it was since 2014 (and until publication in 2018), but actually those cases were all in 2014. (See page 10 of the paper.)
- jialutu 6y agoDoesn't the US have a huge problem with IP trolls? It's really hard to get an accurate figure when the US can just issue IPs like it's no one's business and can to go to court to dispute these equally as easily. At least here in Europe, it's a lot more difficult to file for patents, I've not found any conclusive numbers, but if you can extrapolate from these numbers here I would say that the US is the outlyer rather than the norm https://www.simmons-simmons.com/en/publications/ck0d2ofe9u6dh0b8588o5p7om/080218-how-much-patent-litigation-is-there-in-europe-other-countries https://www.simmons-simmons.com/en/publications/ck0d2ofe9u6d...
- thre42343 6y ago> They have close but opaque connections to the government, You could say this of the US too; SV is almost blatant about this.
- redis_mlc 6y agoIt's actually the opposite: SV lobbies the US govt, but China dictates what their companies do.
- mrcorona 6y agoDidnt we sanction Iran for no reason? Seems the right thing to do is ignore US sanctions when seeing unjust actions.
- filoleg 6y ago>Seems the right thing to do is ignore US sanctions when seeing unjust actions. Just like with breaking any laws, including those you deem to be "unjust", don't be surprised when you get hit with very expected legal consequences for doing so.
- mrcorona 6y agoI mean as a country... during the covid period China sent tons of medical supplies to help sanctioned Iran. I also don't think we should lock up the execs at the medical supply manufacturing companies because they were doing the just thing. I think most of the countries on the planet should start to ignore these US sanctions when they are based on nonsense, especially when the underlying reasons are "regime change" related. Start routing around the SWIFT system as well.
- DeonPenny 6y agoI think you might want to ask yourself why they don't. Ås much as people whine about America. Trust is needed between countries at this level. I feel like America is calling the world's bluff. They are saying if you trust china so much Europe go partner with them we'll be ok.
- filoleg 6y agoTwo things: One, medical masks don't seem to fall under the sanctions (according to the quick wikipedia article skimming I just did [0]), especially since they were donated, so it seems perfectly fine and legal. Two, according to the same article, EU also has sanctions against Iran (with some differences from sanctions imposed by the US), so it is unfair to say that the US is the sole country posing those sanctions. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_sanctions_against_Iran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_sanctions_agains...
- alacombe 6y agoAl Capone went down on tax evasion scheme, nothing else.
- cgh 6y agoThis is why Canada detained Huawei's CFO Meng Wanzhou. I'm also guessing this news is why Telus, a major Canadian telco, just dropped Huawei for its 5G rollout and went with Ericsson instead. This is in line with other Canadian telcos and I believe the rest of the Five Eyes as well. Although didn't the UK flirt with Huawei for a while there?
- justicezyx 6y agoActually, this is not the official charge on Mrs. Meng. According to wiki, the actual charge is: ``` proxies conspired "to misappropriate intellectual property", and Meng lied to HSBC bank. ``` Canada's legal agreement with US is that they work in accordance with US, for criminals that violated the laws at Canada. But there needs to be laws in Canada that are equivalent to US ones. For example, if I committed murder in US, and fled to Canada, they legally are obliged to capture and send me back to US. But if I sell limited item to Iran, and fled to Canada, then Canada are obliged to send me back, because Canada does not have a sanction on Iran. And this is why this action outraged a lot of Chinese, and worried a lot business people.
- greatjack613 6y agoI disagree, Huawei has a track record of IP theft, fraud, and sanctions violations. The time has come to reign them in. I know many great chinese engineers and all of them in the tech industry are enraged with how huawei treats IP. They made it very clear to me that they think the U.S is being to lenient with them, and as a proxy of the chinese government, it is time to take them down.
- greatjack613 6y agoI have heard stories from friends who when they were interviewed by huawei were asked what IP they can contribute from their old company to them. If this is not indicitive of Huaweis intentions, I do not know what is. They are a threat to everything we hold dear.
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- jhpriestley 6y agoThis corporate malfeasance seems pretty tame in comparison to what US multinationals regularly get away with. For example, no one has been arrested from Boeing.
- munk-a 6y agoThis is because you folks down south have tanks - and that's the same reason our PM had 21 seconds of silence when, if we were talking about a press crackdown in a third world nation, he would have spoken up immediately. Good old might makes right.
- some_random 6y agoYou have to be joking, right? You seriously think that the 21 seconds of silence was US censorship? If the US had that kind of power then perhaps that same PM would not have casually praised a Central American dictator upon their death.
- myth_drannon 6y agoIt was self-censorship.
- generatorguy 6y agomaybe he just wants to choose his words carefully because the words will have an effect? unlike some other leader who says whatever thoughts pop in to his head
- Udik 6y agoI watched it earlier. I think it was 1/3 self-censorship, 1/3 a display of self-censorship, and 1/3 of carefully choosing the words before speaking. Overall, brilliant.
- tlear 6y agoOr maybe he was just done watching footage of the riot in Montreal?
- Waterluvian 6y agoChina is holding two innocent Canadian diplomats in poor conditions while Canada does what a modern nation does and allow The CFO a presumption of innocence. She gets to stay in a mansion. Those two Canadians may never see their families again. This extradition better be worth it. If the US frees her as some political pawn I’m going to lose my shit.
- nickff 6y agoNothing the USA does has any bearing on my view of the actions of the People's Republic of China against those Canadians. The PRoC is subjecting (almost certainly) innocent people to confinement and mistreatment for purely political reasons; this is unforgivable.
- AsyncAwait 6y agoI agree, which is why I also think Assange should be released, since he is being subjected to confinement and mistreatment for purely political reasons; this is unforgivable
- nickff 6y agoAssange's case is much less bad than what the PRoC is doing here. Assange is hiding from what he views (and may be correct in seeing as) an unfair or biased extradition and charges. The Chinese are just confining and mistreating the Canadians with no transparency or legitimate due process.
- thre42343 6y agoThe extradition charges were dropped a long time ago, but yes please tell us how the US/UK are the vanguards of 'human rights' and 'free speech'.
- threeseed 6y agoUS/UK are functioning democracies with an independent judiciary and media. That gives them strong checks and balances over impacts to citizen's human rights and free speech. Also neither country has millions of people (Uyghurs) being held in camps and subject to cultural genocide and systemic rape and abuse.
- pphysch 6y agoFunny how easy it is for "independent" reporters to find financial malfeasance goldmines when it is in the interest of US military leadership. * Daily white collar crime? Panama papers? i sleep Manufacturing consent for endless war with Eastasia? REAL SHIT * "China’s foreign ministry said the United States was politicizing economic and trade issues, which is not in the interest of Chinese or American firms." Hard to disagree.
- threeseed 6y agoProblem is that most if not all of the tax evasion, money laundering and white collar crime happening today is being done so 100% legally. Also prosecutors seems to not have much success in the courts at getting criminal charges to stick. Hence why they favour settlements or civil charges.
- pphysch 6y ago"Legally" is an empty word when we are talking about US foreign policy, unfortunately.
- teuna 6y agoThe recent acquisition of Alstom by GE is just another example and a pretty serious one
- president 6y agoSo your point is that US is evil/lawless when it comes to FP and other nations aren't? So how do you feel about China's militarization of the South China Seas and debt trap diplomacy of poor African nations via the Belt and Road Initative? Powerful nations all became powerful nations by being dicks. The same works with politics, corporations, org charts, and all other power structures in nature.
- pphysch 6y agoWhy must you bring morality into the discussion? On that note, China's so-called "debt trap" AKA foreign infrastructure investment is massively preferable to the looting, raping (literal and environmental), and bombing that is synonymous with Euro-American colonialist practices. In my humble opinion. Imperialism/colonialism is always bad for The People but some forms are better than others in terms of human rights.
- chvid 6y agoSuppose Tim Cook’s daughter was arrested in Thailand for Apple’s alleged breach of China’s sanctions against Saudi Arabia. How would you Americans feel about that?
- shliachtx 6y ago> Suppose ~Tim Cook’s daughter~ the CFO of Apple was arrested in Thailand for Apple’s alleged breach of China’s sanctions against Saudi Arabia. The CFO of the company is responsible for the company's financial behavior, being the daughter of the founder does not exempt her.
- xster 6y agoThe CFOs of Banco do Brasil, Bank of America, Bank of Guam, Bank of Moscow, Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi, Barclays, BNP Paribas, Clearstream Banking, Commerzbank, Compass, Crédit Agricole, Deutsche Bank, HSBC, ING, Intesa Sanpaolo, JP Morgan Chase, National Bank of Abu Dhabi, National Bank of Pakistan, PayPal, RBS (ABN Amro), Société Générale, Toronto-Dominion Bank, Trans-Pacific National Bank, Standard Chartered, and Wells Fargo enter the chat. https://archive.is/kyKGf https://archive.is/kyKGf
- eee_honda 6y agoYou and i both know that person is not going to change their views based on new info.
- dirtyid 6y agoUS DoJ initiative to extradite Chinese nationals month before her arrest. [1] https://www.justice.gov/opa/speech/attorney-general-jeff-sessions-announces-new-initiative-combat-chinese-economic-espionage https://www.justice.gov/opa/speech/attorney-general-jeff-ses... There's a reason some US analysts compared her arrest and escalation reminiscent of coldwar kidnapping. It's easy to engineer legal rationales to justify any action, that's why IR operates more on norms than rule of law. Pair this with China being the first "great power competitor that is not Caucasian" and it's not hard to see why other banks just get fines. Hint: same reason some group get fines for drug violations while other goto jail.
- xster 6y agoThis was the entire premise why Canada held Meng Wanzhou no? I don't see any new information surfaced in this article from what was already publicized in 2018. Seems like it's just a chance to re-broadcast a headline for another news cycle.
- lawnchair_larry 6y agoI believe Canada held her because an extradition treaty with the US required them to do so.
- ngcc_hk 6y agoThe Canadian court ruled she has broken Canadian law and hence extradition is on. Not seems to mention in the discussion so far.
- dingoegret 6y agoGood. US sanctions on Iran are violations of international agreements, decency and a treacherous renege on the Nuclear Deal.
- lyrachord 6y agoThere is NO ANY word at all about what in yestodays. HN did do wrong filter. Don't be evil because live-evil = 0.
- KCUOJJQJ 6y agoI don't know why Canada has an extradition treaty with the USA. Hostage-taking for the USA doesn't always work well apparently.
- ateamtexas 6y agohttps://ateam-texas.com/native-vs-hybrid-app-how-to-choose-which-is-the-best-for-my-product/ https://ateam-texas.com/native-vs-hybrid-app-how-to-choose-w...