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I spent many hours arguing with a smart friend about this. I was unable to find any argument to get her to stop believing 5G is boiling/damaging/altering people

I spent many hours arguing with a smart friend about this. I was unable to find any argument to get her to stop believing 5G is boiling/damaging/altering people's blood with "high powered energy waves" or similar (the blood clot revelations have only amplified that conspiracy angle). I find a commonality among most conspiracy theory people is vast ignorance of the topic in question and any underlying science. This isn't always true, however I've found it to be frequently true. They watch YouTube or Facebook videos on a conspiracy, someone states an incorrect thing that is held up as being scientifically correct; the conspiracy minded person has no idea it's wrong because of their ignorance of science, and their eagerness to consume conspiracies prevents them from being willing to do proper research. They buy in with no skepticism. Often the conversation would end on a variation of: when the pandemic is gone, and 5G is still here, then what happens to your conspiracy? They had no reply, the future risk of being wrong didn't matter, only the mental juice of the conspiracy here and now. Or: what about locations where there is no 5G and people are still widely getting the virus? No answer. Or: why is this event so interesting as to warrant outlandish conspiracy theories, versus the pandemics of 1957 or 1968 or 1918, which were not caused by 5G? Or: why didn't 4G kill everyone, despite the absurd conspiracy theories about that as well? It usually does no good, they ignore the premise because that's in the past, they're all about the conspiracy now (it's the only place they can mentally hide, because the conspiracy going on now is usually still open-ended, yet to be crushed fully). The conspiracy they're latched on to in the present is interesting because all big events are interesting to the conspiracy brain. Particularly big active events. Once an event is disproven, they usually instantly forget it ever existed or that they were ever wrong, and move on to the latest thing occupying the news or culture that is worthy of conspiracy theories (it typically has to be a major event or their brains won't latch onto it). I'm convinced at this point in my life, after decades of arguing with conspiracy-minded types, that it's a mis-wiring or imbalance in the brain that tilts people aggressively toward being prone to falling for conspiracy theories. They also seem to need the rush of it (which again makes me wonder about an imbalance in their brains). The way they behave intellectually is incredibly similar; when you get inside their way of thinking via long discussions, you start to see weirdly repeating patterns of thinking, traps, failures of logic, and so on. I find that people prone to it, can't seem to help themselves, they swallow conspiracy theories widely about numerous topics and rarely are capable of intellectual skepticism. It almost strikes me as an illness in how they seem hostage to it, and sort of reminds me of drug addicts I've known. Like arguing with a helpless zombie that can't alter their behavior under any circumstances, no matter what evidence they're presented with.

andrewpheonix 6y ago
This is the best description I have seen. Especially their lack of intellectual skepticism.
mistermann 6y ago
In my experience you can find plentiful examples of similar behaviour among people in general. Take any culture-war-themed thread here on HN and marvel at the extensive collection of knowledge and facts people have on the subject, often extending well into unknowable regions that require omniscience, mind reading, future gazing, etc. Human beings seem to be highly intuitive thinkers, but you may not notice it much in environments with low variance in core values and beliefs. But just so I'm not misunderstood, I don't disagree that conspiracy oriented communities seem to have an unusually high percentage of people who are highly open to new and speculative ideas, and are mostly extremely tolerant of diversity of thought. I don't think it's necessarily as bad as it's made out to be, I think they provide some legitimate value to society, although whether it is net beneficial I'm not entirely sure.
jotm 6y ago
It's the religion thing, the belief there's got to be something big at work, always something or someone controlling the masses. Whether it's God, aliens, lizards, or a super group of people. Because the alternative is that their life, everyone's life, is meaningless on a macro level. People seem to almost violently reject that thought. Just like they reject any thoughts about death as if they're going to live forever (if not on Earth, then in Heaven/Hell/Purgatory/etc). It's rather fascinating.
yabones 6y ago
The thing is though, if you trace all of this back it does end up coming from a very real place. For hundreds of years the governments have been completely willing to let people be poisoned and die. They did practically nothing about DuPont dumping PFAS into rivers for decades, they continue to do nothing about PM2.5 emissions in the predominantly black communities in Louisiana causing massive COPD and asthma rates... So yeah, it's all very valid that people feel this way about something that they don't fully understand. The only way to get through to people is to address this - that the governments and supercorps have absolutely abused their power before and will again, but this time that outrage is misplaced entirely.

andrewpheonix 6y ago

This is the best description I have seen. Especially their lack of intellectual skepticism.

mistermann 6y ago

In my experience you can find plentiful examples of similar behaviour among people in general. Take any culture-war-themed thread here on HN and marvel at the extensive collection of knowledge and facts people have on the subject, often extending well into unknowable regions that require omniscience, mind reading, future gazing, etc. Human beings seem to be highly intuitive thinkers, but you may not notice it much in environments with low variance in core values and beliefs. But just so I'm not misunderstood, I don't disagree that conspiracy oriented communities seem to have an unusually high percentage of people who are highly open to new and speculative ideas, and are mostly extremely tolerant of diversity of thought. I don't think it's necessarily as bad as it's made out to be, I think they provide some legitimate value to society, although whether it is net beneficial I'm not entirely sure.

jotm 6y ago

It's the religion thing, the belief there's got to be something big at work, always something or someone controlling the masses. Whether it's God, aliens, lizards, or a super group of people. Because the alternative is that their life, everyone's life, is meaningless on a macro level. People seem to almost violently reject that thought. Just like they reject any thoughts about death as if they're going to live forever (if not on Earth, then in Heaven/Hell/Purgatory/etc). It's rather fascinating.

yabones 6y ago

The thing is though, if you trace all of this back it does end up coming from a very real place. For hundreds of years the governments have been completely willing to let people be poisoned and die. They did practically nothing about DuPont dumping PFAS into rivers for decades, they continue to do nothing about PM2.5 emissions in the predominantly black communities in Louisiana causing massive COPD and asthma rates... So yeah, it's all very valid that people feel this way about something that they don't fully understand. The only way to get through to people is to address this - that the governments and supercorps have absolutely abused their power before and will again, but this time that outrage is misplaced entirely.