4 ms·

Any studies involving UBI need to have malicious actors as a part of the study. UBI, if it is ever realized, will be a scammer's paradise. Every possible metho

by umvi 6y ago

Any studies involving UBI need to have malicious actors as a part of the study. UBI, if it is ever realized, will be a scammer's paradise. Every possible method for getting a slice of people's UBIs will be tried. From fake government calls, to identity theft, to greedy landlords, to you name it. And whose UBI will be most vulnerable to these types of attacks? The poor.

theduder99 6y ago
bingo
mrlala 6y ago
>Any studies involving UBI need to have malicious actors as a part of the study. Yes, and no. Of course there will be some low form of abuse and whatever.. that is just a given with anything in the entire world. It should NOT be a main reason of any form to be against it. We are trying to help people, so what if it's getting a little bit abused? We as a whole are still better off. It's like a universal healthcare argument.. people might say "well what if someone from mexico sneaks in and get care for free?? I'm paying for that!" If the worst case is that someone gets health treatment... then it's a pretty silly argument in my book.
- umvi 6y ago
  What if the worst case for UBI is that it, counter-intuitively, increases the income gap between low and middle classes? Is it still worth it then?
  - Dylan16807 6y ago
    That's a tricky one. It depends on how it affects the relationship with the upper class too. Completely unreal example numbers: If the distribution of lower:middle:upper was 2:5:40 and changes to 4:8:25 then that's a big improvement, even though the gap between lower and middle increased from 3 to 4.
  - mrlala 6y ago
    Of course not- and that has nothing to do with the situation I was talking about. I was giving an example where the worst case was still "good" overall. You are giving an example where the worst case is "bad" overall.. so, duh?
starpilot 6y ago
Those are ongoing issues with any form of government aid, and not specific to UBI.
- umvi 6y ago
  Right, so if we increase the scale of government aid to unprecedented levels, then we should expect the issues to scale proportionally to unprecedented levels as well
asah 6y ago
Doesn't this already happen with social security, i.e. we know the effects of scammers?
chillacy 6y ago
This argument always seems to frame "the poor" as being unable to deal with having money, as if it's better to leave them poor else they'll just misspend/lose it. As long as people don't get scammed _future_ basic income, I think people will learn over time how to manage money, just like I don't worry about how getting a raise will make me more vulnerable to scammers.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

by umvi 6y ago

theduder99 6y ago

bingo

mrlala 6y ago

>Any studies involving UBI need to have malicious actors as a part of the study. Yes, and no. Of course there will be some low form of abuse and whatever.. that is just a given with anything in the entire world. It should NOT be a main reason of any form to be against it. We are trying to help people, so what if it's getting a little bit abused? We as a whole are still better off. It's like a universal healthcare argument.. people might say "well what if someone from mexico sneaks in and get care for free?? I'm paying for that!" If the worst case is that someone gets health treatment... then it's a pretty silly argument in my book.

umvi 6y ago
What if the worst case for UBI is that it, counter-intuitively, increases the income gap between low and middle classes? Is it still worth it then?
- Dylan16807 6y ago
  That's a tricky one. It depends on how it affects the relationship with the upper class too. Completely unreal example numbers: If the distribution of lower:middle:upper was 2:5:40 and changes to 4:8:25 then that's a big improvement, even though the gap between lower and middle increased from 3 to 4.
- mrlala 6y ago
  Of course not- and that has nothing to do with the situation I was talking about. I was giving an example where the worst case was still "good" overall. You are giving an example where the worst case is "bad" overall.. so, duh?

starpilot 6y ago

Those are ongoing issues with any form of government aid, and not specific to UBI.

umvi 6y ago
Right, so if we increase the scale of government aid to unprecedented levels, then we should expect the issues to scale proportionally to unprecedented levels as well

asah 6y ago

Doesn't this already happen with social security, i.e. we know the effects of scammers?

chillacy 6y ago

This argument always seems to frame "the poor" as being unable to deal with having money, as if it's better to leave them poor else they'll just misspend/lose it. As long as people don't get scammed _future_ basic income, I think people will learn over time how to manage money, just like I don't worry about how getting a raise will make me more vulnerable to scammers.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]