14 ms·

On paper Windows is good. In practice the telemetry and the story behind its introduction and how they handled communication means that I won't consider Windows

• nitinreddy88 6y ago
  How replacing CEO helps. Really?!
  • mattblalock 6y ago
    Sounds crazy to me, some kind of propaganda
  • Nasrudith 6y ago
    My guess is under the assumption that the solution will never come under the leadership who was the source of the problem.
• alpaca128 6y ago
  I completely agree. Also the automatic updates which potentially just close an open session including unsaved files is not something that helps trust. Windows has become less transparent and much more controlling, actively ignoring or overriding user preferences, and I don't know why I should use a software like that, not to mention pay for the "privilege" of being messed with.
  • thunfischbrot 6y ago
    I wish Windows 10 LTSC was the base for all other Windows 10 OS versions. An expensive version that is easy to use with few distractions, does not need a full-time system administrator to run and just works.
    • Nextgrid 6y ago
      I installed the Enterprise LTSC version on my new gaming machine and saw all the usual bullshit you'd expect from consumer-grade Windows 10. A deceptive setup screen that asks you to create a Microsoft account (you need to use the "Domain join" button to be able to create a local admin account, there is no "local account" button by itself). Spyware features like "personalization", advertising identifier, etc that I needed to uncheck (during the initial setup process there are at least 10 things I had to disable or say no to), also there's a subtle dark pattern going on with the button to go to the next screen, it's no longer called "Next" but "Accept" instead (even if you disable all the proposed options). Despite the watermark on the wallpaper correctly saying "Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC" I can still only select "Basic" telemetry in the settings. I am not sure whether it's a quirk of the evaluation version or if I need to use a group policy to disable it.
  • modernerd 6y ago
    Automatic updates interrupting work hasn't been an issue for me for a long time. You can set updates to install outside of an 18-hour window, defer updates for a set period, or disable them: https://www.windowscentral.com/how-stop-updates-installing-automatically-windows-10 https://www.windowscentral.com/how-stop-updates-installing-a...
    • lostlogin 6y ago
      A work mandates machines with locked down control is always going to be awful. The machine in my house that is in this category gets opened every week or two for it’s mega updates, then closed until the next batch.
      • modernerd 6y ago
        Agreed, the update experience for anything used occasionally or when someone else controls the update cycle is going to be miserable. I've experienced the same with work-issued laptops, and also have an iMac I boot once every few months to be met with 20 software update nags from the OS and various apps. Probably means I should sell the iMac.
    • tomp 6y ago
      Does this actually work? I tried (permanently) disabling updates on my Surface Go (running Windows 10) a few months ago but kept failing. The worst thing is, you don't know if what you did works or not, because you need to wait until the next update :D
      • modernerd 6y ago
        I've also seen user experience reports in the wild that say, “I tried those settings but I still had a forced update halfway through my Big Important Presentation”. I haven't had that myself so far. Hate to say it works on my machine but that's been my experience to date.
        • llampx 6y ago
  • goatinaboat 6y ago
    the automatic updates which potentially just close an open session including unsaved files is not something that helps trust This is literally a preference setting. There are cases where you want to force it e.g. a sysadmin pushing security patches over the weekend but other than that you set the time window, or no window and it just gives a notification that patches are available and you reboot whenever you want to.
    • wtetzner 6y ago
      Admittedly it's been a couple of years since I've used Windows 10, but at that time there was no way to disable the automatic updates. Even the registry hacks didn't work for me.
  • horsawlarway 6y ago
    I run Arch for most of my dev work so maybe I'm just missing it, but I do a fair bit of dev/testing on windows machines and I don't EVER have this happen. Like - Literally never in the past two years have I lost work due to auto updates.
    • gassiss 6y ago
      It definitely got a lot better over the years, but it still happens sometimes. I don't know the criteria, but it is basically having some update pending install.
  • noxToken 6y ago
    You can sent your Internet connection to "metered" to stop this. I hate that you can't just outright disable forced updates, but this is the working solution that MS offers.
    • cercatrova 6y ago
      You can, via the registry.
• ubercow13 6y ago
  Where can I read about the story behind it?
• mattblalock 6y ago
  You sound insane
  • anikk 6y ago
    Nadella IT cells are trying to disrupt another discussion like the sheep bleating in AnimalFarm.
• shrimp_emoji 6y ago
  But Nadella's a great CEO compared to his predecessors. D: But, yeah, that + stuff like your OS restarting behind your back whenever you lock your screen and walk away keeps me on Linux despite the very tantalizing promises of WSL2.
  • vijucat 6y ago
    > stuff like your OS restarting behind your back whenever you lock your screen and walk away https://imgur.com/a/qAWLzsu https://imgur.com/a/qAWLzsu Maybe it's been a couple of years since you tried Windows? Right now, if you go to the Windows Update part of Settings, the top 2 options are: a) "Pause updates for 7 days" and b) "Change active hours", which can be used to specify an 18-hour window within which, "We won't automatically restart your device during this time" It's quite straightforward.
    • lostlogin 6y ago
      Wait, you can’t set it up so that it won’t restart itself? In case it isn’t obvious, I am not a windows user.
      • gambiting 6y ago
        Not through that menu, but it can be done through the policy editor. You can also just disable the update service if you want to.
      • bitwize 6y ago
        No. Sooner or later, you will have to let it update. Updates are important, and Microsoft doesn't want the service calls they're going to get if you don't update and something breaks or you get hacked. So just like "your contract with the [TV] network is you're going to watch the spots", your contract with Microsoft is you're going to install the updates, and you consent to be spied on, and...
        • garaetjjte 6y ago
• modernerd 6y ago
  I understand abstaining from a platform on principle. But it's pretty simple to opt-out of non-essential telemetry because so many people complained about it in Windows 10: https://www.windowscentral.com/how-view-and-manage-diagnostic-data-windows-10-april-2018-update https://www.windowscentral.com/how-view-and-manage-diagnosti... I set telemetry to 'basic' which means I'm comfortable with essential system data being sent in return for my system gaining updates and security patches. Microsoft does a better job than many about explaining what data it collects, why it collects it, and how to disable collection where possible across its products: https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-US/ https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-US/ Last year it started explaining which telemetry in Windows 10 is required (system data for updates/security) and which is optional (usage data to shape product direction) in a way that's largely free from legalese: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4468236/diagnostics-feedback-and-privacy-in-windows-10-microsoft-privacy https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4468236/diagnostics... There are definitely Windows users who are “being ignorant about this topic” but that's not true of everyone. For me it's a combination of understanding what is sent, why it's sent, and how to control what's sent. That info used to be a lot harder to find so I'd say things are improving. Reflecting on my own risk profile, seeing first-hand how much telemetry can benefit product teams, and learning about how the Windows update process works at a global scale (the “essential” telemetry class informs partial/phased roll-outs) also helped temper my initial reaction against telemetry being included at all.
  • SahAssar 6y ago
    There is no such thing as essential telemetry. There should be an option to turn it off completely.
    • modernerd 6y ago
      Let's say Microsoft adds one. You tick it and what MS currently considers “essential telemetry” is turned off completely, instantly, and for real. The risk seems to be that people who don't understand the implications of not sharing basic telemetry, when faced with a box that says “share nothing”, “share essential“, and “share essential and optional” would choose “share nothing” every time, because it just _feels_ better, right? Why would I choose to share anything at all? But they might be angry or surprised when: - The OS and apps can't tell if you're eligible for an update because they don't know if your hardware/drivers will run the new version, because you won't tell them what hardware/drivers you're running now. - Updates that affect performance or stability just continue to affect performance and stability because there's no data about the impact of an update, apart from what's provided by angry customers in support channels. - Bugs and application crashes are not addressed ever or in good time because they are either never known about or not captured in sufficient detail to reproduce. So, sure, maybe it should be an option. But there are certainly many who overestimate the risk and underestimate the value of basic telemetry (like sharing system info) for them as a user.
• swiley 6y ago
  Not to mention your computer being randomly unavailable every other week or so.
  • nickflood 6y ago
    Updates are pushed to Windows once a month. In fact, they are published on Update Tuesday - the second Tuesday of every month.