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White nationalist group posing as antifa called for violence on Twitter
- te_chris 6y agoIronic that the GOP are so opposed to an ideology dedicated to being against fascism.
- chroem- 6y agoWhy are they targeting regular people, and the services that they rely on? At best, this is friendly fire, and at worst it's a mob that has lost its mind. I'm having difficulty getting the medication that I rely on to avoid going blind, because all of the drug stores are closed after getting looted and vandalized.
- skruban 6y agoPeople aren’t against anti fascism as an ideology, they are against people using “anti fa” as a moniker to legitimize their violence. It’s as daft as saying you’re against democracy because you dislike the democratic people’s Republic of Korea.
- dependenttypes 6y agoDid you ever attempt to engage in discussion people that self-identify as antifa online? Trust me, it is not a pleasant experience. My experiences so far were that they are full of mccarthyism accusing pretty much everyone of being a nazi, and that they want to silence (whether violently or via "cancelling") pretty much everyone who disagrees with them or defends someone who they do not like - even about the most mundane topic (as long as it is political/social). In addition if you check out antifa communities you will see that a lot of them engage in things like doxing and support arson of public property and buisnesses. Antifa is far from being just anti-fascist, even the original organisation, Antifaschistische Aktion was a Stalinist puppet.
- enriquto 6y agoThis seems to be mostly a US-ian thing. From europe, it is perfectly acceptable to label yourself as "antifascist", with no ill intent understood by anybody (except fringe right wing extremists). I abhor "cancel culture" and the political correctness bullshit, but I still say proudly that I am antifa.
- pathseeker 6y agoThat's why it helps to distinguish between ANTIFA and being anti-fascist. There is only a small overlap between those two groups.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- enriquto 6y agoIt doesn't really help. One is just a shorthand for the other.
- hhjinks 6y agoNo, one is an opinion, the other is a label you willingly have to apply to yourself, in which you also associate yourself with several groups across the world of varying moral fabric.
- josteink 6y agoIn the same way as being a National and Socialists is the same as being a Nazi, killing millions of Jews? Some times things become a thing of their own. Then differentiating makes sense. Being anti-fascist is a good thing. Being an anti-democratic organisation which violently attacks civilians for having made the “wrong” vote in a democratic election is not. ANTIFA has nothing to do with anti-fascism. Differentiation is not only useful, it’s absolutely required.
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- RcouF1uZ4gsC 6y agoOne of the most anti-fascist people in history ended up being Stalin. I mean his forces were directly responsible for Hitler committing suicide. But he was a horrible, genocidal maniac. Just because you are “anti-fascist” does it mean that you can’t be evil, especially when you use violence to intimidate your political opponents and cause injury and loss to innocent civilians.
- 0xy 6y agoNote that while this particular account was fake, real Antifa groups were organizing to attack those areas, according to multiple police sources. [1] Disinformation campaigns don't mean all such activity is by political shills. [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/law-enforcement-plays-catch-stop-violence-radical-groups-protests-n1220486 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/law-enfo...
- craigmcnamara 6y agoAntifa is not a single organized group, it's anyone who is anti-fascist. So there is no 'real' antifa groups. The police don't have a very good track record releasing truthful information regarding these events, so why not chill out before drawing your own outrageous conclusions.
- kevingadd 6y agoIt would be fair to say that there are anti-fascist groups - many of them. It's just utterly non-factual to claim that "antifa" is an organized group, let alone some sort of terrorist organization. At best it's lots of small organizations with some common goals and iconography, and many of them have differing opinions and practices
- 0xy 6y agoWho claimed "antifa" is a singular organized group? The KKK has multiple independent sects and semi-decentralized governance, but that doesn't mean "KKK" doesn't exist -- it refers to all of them collectively.
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- prettythrough32 6y agoWho would've thought that this would be the thing to bring White Nationalists and anti-Whites together? A profoundly anti-White government in all forms of propaganda and law, being set upon by the Africans and brainwashed Whites they radicalised. And we get to sit back with popcorn watching them pound each other into the turf (while still somehow managing to both blame White people).
- ryanmarsh 6y agoShitposting made the evening news?
- pennaMan 6y agoshitposting decided the last us election
- nkkollaw 6y agoI don't think there are enough white nationalists to blame them for that. Mainstream media is now 50% fake news.
- nmeofthestate 6y agoInevitable I guess, given how this violence is likely to boost support for Trump and the right. It raises the possibility that some of the people supporting, defending or excusing looting and violence on HN are secretly right-wingers. Nah, probably not, but still...
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- masnao 6y agoantifa is a term that only serves fascists. fascists do not call themselves that since the 40s. calling the normal of not being fascists antifa is only enabling easier critic amd blaming of something that could not be criticized or blamed. the term antifa only benefit fascists. who can now easily direct blame and critic to their critics, as shown in the article (which is not the first and hardly the last)
- hey_buddy 6y agoHey buddy... How would you know that White Supremacists aren't false flagging a Black Lives Matter movement, if you aren't a White Supremacist, buddy? You aren't a White Supremacist, are you??????
- sd32 6y agohttps://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8374165/Moment-Molotov-sister-27-throws-petrol-bomb-police-van-four-NYPD-officers-inside.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8374165/Moment-Molo... Gonna be hard to make the "white nationalist false flag" narrative stick when so many obvious antifa types have not only been arrested, but proudly post videos and selfies of their crimes to social media. Meanwhile, I'm trapped in NYC with elderly parents, who now can't go outside because of rioters (after having been stuck inside for months because COVID), and I'm afraid of not being able to get food if the grocery stores shut down, or medicine if the looters target more pharmacies. And I'm supposed to support reform to tie the hands of the NYPD, when they're the only thing standing between us and these terrorists now?
- black_puppydog 6y agosorry but throwing out "terrorism" as a (by now meaningless) label is not the way to go. use words that have some meaning left
- commandlinefan 6y ago> use words that have some meaning left I'm afraid to - there aren't that many any more, and I don't know how we're going to communicate after we lose those, too. Words that still have actual meaning have to be protected carefully in the 21st century.
- sd32 6y agoYou assholes downvoting me are probably like those Molotov-throwing, rich sisters from upstate who don't have to worry about their elderly parents' safety (for now, anyway), and have enough money to buy their way out of whatever problems their actions cause. You rich, privileged people are waging (or at least supporting) what amounts to a literal class warfare against lower income people who can't get away from this. The Bronx, the poorest borough, was the worst hit last night.
- lm28469 6y ago> And I'm supposed to support reform to tie the hands of the NYPD, when they're the only thing standing between us and these terrorists now? hm you can do both actually, these things aren't mutually exclusive. You can be against systemic racism, police having access to military equipment, the killing unarmed people AND be against rioters who're just here to destroy and steal. Last time I checked this isn't a 200 IQ thought, I'd even label that as "common sense" > I'm afraid of ... Then you know what some of these people feel and why the majority of them are protesting, you're fighting the same fight, stop shitting on each other like elementary school kids. The US is turning into a third world country and the enemy isn't your fellow citizens.
- Ampersandroid 6y agoWhite nationalist group posing as antifa called for violence on Twitter. Meanwhile, actual antifa groups call for violence on twitter.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- nil-sec 6y agoIt is utterly ridiculous to try to blame either, far right or far left wing organizations for what is happening in the US right now. None of these groups have the power to cause that much damage. I’d be surprised if the number of antifa/black bloc people in these protest is more than a tiny fraction of people, like in any protest. Yet the discussion is shifted to these groups as an explanation for violence and this entire thread is full of people arguing about whether the Antifa is an organization. The antifa doesn’t even matter. What is happening to this discourse?
- AnimalMuppet 6y agoIf there are 1000 people at a protest and 50 start brawling with the police, that changes the entire character of the day, no matter whether 50/1000 is a small number or not.
- nil-sec 6y agoThis is the point. There are many people at these protests. This is a heated, complex situation and at any large protest the people there are not homogeneous. The majority wants to peacefully protest, some loot, some want violence, the police is aggressive. Given that it is understood that every protest is a complicated social phenomenon, the narrative pushed by major news outlets in the US, and echoed in parts here, that somehow this is led and organised by Antifa, or the far right, is delusional. There are protests all over the US. In suburbs. How do you imagine this is working? The Antifa/Right has some chapters in every suburb of the US, just waiting to be unleashed upon the masses and this is the reason why protests turn violent? It's a gross oversimplification of the actual dynamics, it's a child's story that is easy to tell and easy to digest.
- th0ma5 6y agoIf there are 1000 cops and 50 start brawling with the protestors...
- PHGamer 6y agolooking at the videos over the past few days its pretty safe to safe it was for the most part not white supremists. the last day was questionable like those bricks in dallas but other than that. there were a lot of young black people doing stuff on their own.
- Balgair 6y agoIn Denver it seems that the day time protestors are older and more diverse (latino-american, african-american, etc) and the night time protestors are younger and more white-american looking to start trouble, though things are changing rapidly. [0] There are confirmed reports of agitators that have been stopped before violence occurred, thank God. [0] Last evening, Denver's PD chief marched with protestors and mostly allowed them to walk and shout well past curfew. I've not yet seen looting reports (though that may change), and the injuries to protestors and PD seem to have been much less as of now. Compared to other nights, it was successful. Each city is different. Lumping people together nationally is not helping anyone discover what is happening locally. [0] https://twitter.com/KyleClark https://twitter.com/KyleClark I suck at twitter, so I can't figure out how to link specific tweets here. But Kyle Clark is the head anchor for Denver's 9pm news broadcast. The tweets in his feed specify the facts much better than I can.
- peter_d_sherman 6y agoDehumanization (of any group, by any other) preceeds crimes against humanity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehumanization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehumanization
- loki49152 6y agoWell, AntiFa exists to engage in violence, by their own statements, so anyone "posing as" them to "call for violence" is just playing catch-up.
- xster 6y agoAlso, if NBC calls something misinformation with "little evidence", then it would be unsatirical to reference some primary sources itself. "according to a Twitter spokesperson". Which spokesperson and where was this said? I don't see anything on https://blog.twitter.com https://blog.twitter.com. Nor could I find any primary recent references to Twitter and white nationalists or Identity Evropa except the editorials themselves.
- bruceb 6y agoBlaming the boogy man of White Nationalists, Russia, or outside outside agitators is a way to shift blame by politicians and an easy scapegoat. Amusingly the governor of Minnesota, and a big city MN mayor blamed vandalism & lootingrioters as being the work of people who were all from out of state, thereby parroting Trump's same line (or he theirs). They (not Trump of course) had to walk it back when it turned out not to be true. Is there some outside groups posing as others, possibly, but to blame a majority of problems on them is just BS.
- jevgeni 6y agoBut the article itself is factual.
- chrisco255 6y agoYeah all those white supremacists in Portland. Definitely not Antifa: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H4Z6Jvy1Rf0 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H4Z6Jvy1Rf0
- sdkjfhskjfh 6y agoLooks like rioters to me. There's certainly not enough evidence in that video to prove any sort of group/political affiliation.
- llcoolv 6y agoAre you blind?
- sdkjfhskjfh 6y agoMaybe. Why don't you point out exactly what it is in that video that makes you confident enough to label them as "Antifa." I don't see anything that leads me to believe they're anything more than dumb teenagers in the middle of a riot.