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An American Uprising
- ojhughes 6y agoI remember the England riots in 2011 were strongly opposed by most people I know. I am surprised how much support these riots appear to have on social media. Rioting is a terrible, violent act.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- rayiner 6y agoThe MLK quote the article leads with isn’t always out of context when invoked to talk about the rioting, but it is here. The gist of MLK’s point was that riots are, even if understandable, still unjustifiable and counter-productive. Whereas the view expressed in the rest of the article is something along the ones of: “why are you talking about property damage when someone lost his life?” Whatever this view has going for it, it’s inconsistent with what MLK said (and more largely, what he stood for). But MLK said that the police brutality needs to be condemned equally to the rioting. He didn’t say to ignore the rioting. I come from a country that exists because we were able to violently overthrow our oppressors. Our problem of being second class citizens in our own country was decisively solved with guns. But MLK keenly recognized that this course of action was not on the table for African Americans in the United States, regardless of how justified or not it may be. Attempts to justify the violence ignore this sobering lesson.
- happytoexplain 6y agoShort of killing or permanently injuring people or destroying residences, I think the riots are morally justified, but they may not be practically justified. However, even the practical non-justification is becoming uncertain at this point, considering just how extreme and long-lasting the originating problem has become, how desperately severe it is, and how it has worsened.
- mc32 6y agoI don’t see how it’s morally justified except with very narrow scope. Riots for the most part affect people who had nothing material to do with whatever the complaint is. They’re virtually bystanders. It’s like the guy who has a legit complaint against his boss and decides “the whole office is gonna pay!” How have things worsened since the MLK days? Of course there is injustice and lots we could do for fellow Americans to give people an equal opportunity at a decent life, but I can’t imagine opportunity has gotten worse? Instead of rebuilding the Middle East or cruising through North Africa the previous decade, we could have ploughed that money into American citizens’ well-being and progress. We also have homelessness in addition to the above.
- free_rms 6y agoThere's a distinction between 'people' and 'Target', though.
- Fellshard 6y agoAnd the people who work at and invested their savings into running the individual store? Are their lives unaccounted for, unaffected?
- happytoexplain 6y agoSuch tragedies are, of course, accounted for. Virtually nobody who is discussing this on HN is a monster who is not thinking of those people. Your accounting may differ, and you should express your thoughts on that.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y agoI think this article, like much analysis I've seen, is unreasonably optimistic about the long-term prognosis of riots. > Target will reopen. The stores will reopen. That’s assured. It's not assured! In the riots of the 60s, many neighborhoods didn't see the stores reopen and took decades to recover. Multiple days of rioting is an existential threat to a neighborhood. Maybe that's a price worth paying, but you've got to own it, not pretend sustained looting is a temporary inconvenience.
- philwelch 6y agoAnd that’s on top of the pandemic, mass unemployment, and the long-term downturn in brick and mortar retail.
- emusan 6y agoEverything is fine, the S&P500 is nearly back to its all-time high again. (/s)
- runarberg 6y agoStill not even close... Who cares if Nordstrom will never open in downtown Seattle if it means we stop police killings?
- philwelch 6y agoIs there some plausible way that destroying the Nordstrom in downtown Seattle will lead to the end of police brutality? Usually these “ends justify the means” arguments depend upon the means actually conceivably achieving the ends in the first place.
- runarberg 6y agoThat’s not what we are talking about. The OP quotes says: “why are you talking about property damage when someone lost his life?” Regardless of the justification for looting, people are still dying in the hands of the police, and that’s what we should be talking about. Rewording for the current situation: “Who cares about Target? People are being murdered!”
- emperorsclothes 6y agoLike most commentary from the mainstream press, it assumes that there is strong evidence and reason to believe that police use deadly force in a racially biased way. But the percentage of black people killed by the police is actually lower than the percentage of violent crimes, homicides and police killings that are committed by black people. It's not clear why the the dominant narrative focuses on racial bias for which there is little strong evidence, rather than excess use of force in general.
- JasonFruit 6y agoIf anyone's interested, the track with Big Floyd and DJ Screw is on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv2bBdbvF20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv2bBdbvF20
- almost_usual 6y agoI really think humanity is near checkmate in the battle against elite wealth. It will be complete when AI and automation render most of us obsolete. Any battle against a militarized police force will be more hopeless than it already is.
- peteretep 6y agoElite wealth is not a homogenous unit. The Magna Carta wasn’t a win for the little guy, it was a win for the rich and powerful against someone a bit more rich and powerful.
- barretts 6y agoWe talk about the lessons of 1968. What does that period of unrest really teach us? It led to the election of Nixon.