5 ms·

Libraries would be only illegal in the US though, because all these copyright issues are US specific. Archive.org might as well rebase itself somewhere else.

pbhjpbhj 6y ago
[My personal opinion, unrelated to any employment:] FWIW I've studied copyright informally in UK, USA, and to a lesser extent other countries. In UK our "Fair Dealing" is highly restrictive compared to USA's Fair Use. Our (UK) archiving rights extend only to a couple of institutions and then only to people attending the library in person. We don't have rights to make backups; we don't have rights to format shift (except to help the disabled). Yes, copyright specifics apply but wrt archiving USA is far from the most restrictive regime.
- unicornporn 6y ago
  In Sweden we have the super restricted "right to quote"[1]. Fair use seems like a dream compared to this. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_quote https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_quote
RunningDroid 6y ago
>Archive.org might as well rebase itself somewhere else. That would probably be extremely expensive given the fastest way to mirror the IA is with a truck full of hard drives.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  It's actually relatively inexpensive to move gear via cargo container. I'd hazard you could move all 10PB of the Internet Archive for less than $25k-50k in shipping costs (~$2k per 40FT container), with labor extra for loading and unloading. (Disclaimer: I have coordinated data center migrations in a previous life) Although, it's probably more financially efficient for other nations to offer cultural grants for local IA non-profit entities to spin up infra in country and begin mirroring the South SF location.
  - skissane 6y ago
    How many backups do they have? I'd hate for the shipping container to fall off the side of the ship, bye bye all that precious data. (Just last week some shipping containers washed ashore on a beach in my local area – they had fallen off a ship [1].) [1] https://coastcommunitynews.com.au/central-coast/news/2020/05/the-driftwood-is-getting-bigger/ https://coastcommunitynews.com.au/central-coast/news/2020/05...
Mindwipe 6y ago
Many countries pay copyright owners for library lending (the UK for example through the public lending right).
- mcguire 6y ago
  In the US, libraries buy the books, etc., they lend, or pay for license agreements for digital media.
  - Mindwipe 6y ago
    UK libraries buy the books and pay additionally for every lend, as it should be.
    - mcguire 6y ago
      "...as it should be." Hey, don't try to convince me. I spend most of the hundreds of dollars I pay for books every year at used book stores and things like estate sales. I am literally Satan.
      - Nemo_bis 6y ago
        Same here. What publishers give to authors is practically zero, so if you want the author to get any money you're better off sending them a donation directly.
sudosysgen 6y ago
And the US through it's massive influence and bullying would undoubtedly force it upon other countries, as they have done countless times including in the context of copyright.
- dredmorbius 6y ago
  In the case of copyright, at least nominally, it's the more-restrictive (and European) Berne Convention (1886) terms which have been adopted elsewhere. To what extent this reflects European rather than US interests I'm uncertain, though the latter certainly exist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    I was in Morocco when we signed copyright restrictions, and I can assure you 95% of the pressure is from United States, and it is in the interests mainly of the US and it's allies. As far as it reflecting European interests, the Berne convention is against European interests as it pertains to US copyrighted work as it offers them less protection than US works and forces a higher standard for US copyright than domestic copyright in many cases.
    - dredmorbius 6y ago
      Understood and accurate so far as I'm aware. As my other response notes, the tradition of copyright maximalisation began in Europe in the 19th century before being adopted by US interests in the 20th. Nationalistic attribution of traits answers far less than monopolistic power expansion.
      - sudosysgen 6y ago
        I agree wholeheartedly, the tradition of copyright maximization has its origins in capitalism and value extraction, as such it follows the siege of global capitalism as that is where the interests in the commodification and extraction of value from intellectual property originates from. So it naturally began in Europe, then in the US, and maybe shortly in China? We will see.
tzs 6y ago
What they are being accused of would be highly questionable under the copyright laws of over 190 countries, including almost all that are likely to be reasonable places to host a major internet site.

pbhjpbhj 6y ago

[My personal opinion, unrelated to any employment:] FWIW I've studied copyright informally in UK, USA, and to a lesser extent other countries. In UK our "Fair Dealing" is highly restrictive compared to USA's Fair Use. Our (UK) archiving rights extend only to a couple of institutions and then only to people attending the library in person. We don't have rights to make backups; we don't have rights to format shift (except to help the disabled). Yes, copyright specifics apply but wrt archiving USA is far from the most restrictive regime.

unicornporn 6y ago
In Sweden we have the super restricted "right to quote"[1]. Fair use seems like a dream compared to this. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_quote https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_quote

RunningDroid 6y ago

>Archive.org might as well rebase itself somewhere else. That would probably be extremely expensive given the fastest way to mirror the IA is with a truck full of hard drives.

toomuchtodo 6y ago
It's actually relatively inexpensive to move gear via cargo container. I'd hazard you could move all 10PB of the Internet Archive for less than $25k-50k in shipping costs (~$2k per 40FT container), with labor extra for loading and unloading. (Disclaimer: I have coordinated data center migrations in a previous life) Although, it's probably more financially efficient for other nations to offer cultural grants for local IA non-profit entities to spin up infra in country and begin mirroring the South SF location.
- skissane 6y ago
  How many backups do they have? I'd hate for the shipping container to fall off the side of the ship, bye bye all that precious data. (Just last week some shipping containers washed ashore on a beach in my local area – they had fallen off a ship [1].) [1] https://coastcommunitynews.com.au/central-coast/news/2020/05/the-driftwood-is-getting-bigger/ https://coastcommunitynews.com.au/central-coast/news/2020/05...

Mindwipe 6y ago

Many countries pay copyright owners for library lending (the UK for example through the public lending right).

mcguire 6y ago
In the US, libraries buy the books, etc., they lend, or pay for license agreements for digital media.
- Mindwipe 6y ago
  UK libraries buy the books and pay additionally for every lend, as it should be.
  - mcguire 6y ago
    "...as it should be." Hey, don't try to convince me. I spend most of the hundreds of dollars I pay for books every year at used book stores and things like estate sales. I am literally Satan.
    - Nemo_bis 6y ago
      Same here. What publishers give to authors is practically zero, so if you want the author to get any money you're better off sending them a donation directly.

sudosysgen 6y ago

And the US through it's massive influence and bullying would undoubtedly force it upon other countries, as they have done countless times including in the context of copyright.

dredmorbius 6y ago
In the case of copyright, at least nominally, it's the more-restrictive (and European) Berne Convention (1886) terms which have been adopted elsewhere. To what extent this reflects European rather than US interests I'm uncertain, though the latter certainly exist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  I was in Morocco when we signed copyright restrictions, and I can assure you 95% of the pressure is from United States, and it is in the interests mainly of the US and it's allies. As far as it reflecting European interests, the Berne convention is against European interests as it pertains to US copyrighted work as it offers them less protection than US works and forces a higher standard for US copyright than domestic copyright in many cases.
  - dredmorbius 6y ago
    Understood and accurate so far as I'm aware. As my other response notes, the tradition of copyright maximalisation began in Europe in the 19th century before being adopted by US interests in the 20th. Nationalistic attribution of traits answers far less than monopolistic power expansion.
    - sudosysgen 6y ago
      I agree wholeheartedly, the tradition of copyright maximization has its origins in capitalism and value extraction, as such it follows the siege of global capitalism as that is where the interests in the commodification and extraction of value from intellectual property originates from. So it naturally began in Europe, then in the US, and maybe shortly in China? We will see.

tzs 6y ago

What they are being accused of would be highly questionable under the copyright laws of over 190 countries, including almost all that are likely to be reasonable places to host a major internet site.