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People on twitter at other $bigtech seem more than happy to bring you all on board but you've been sucking that $270k+ top-end-even-for-FAANG salary with no con
by mjayhn 6y ago
People on twitter at other $bigtech seem more than happy to bring you all on board but you've been sucking that $270k+ top-end-even-for-FAANG salary with no concern for the ethics or morality of your business for years. This isn't new. I'm less than excited to see Facebook show up on a resume and haven't been for years. Not to mention the people I've interviewed from there seem to get so accustomed to working on Facebook internal tools that aren't in use anywhere else, especially you front end devs (not talking about just react here but the internal ecosystem).
Best of luck to those of you looking to leave. It took THIS much to get you to this point, don't forget that.
There are a LOT of devs not from Facebook that deserve to be hired and given chances in other FAANG businesses. People you actually want to work with who won't contribute to attacks on democracy for a high salary and have refused to even respond to Facebook recruiters for the last 3-10 years.
Hire them instead. Especially you Google employees who are on twitter ranting and raving right now. There's a huge amount of people who want to work with you who haven't traded their ethics for a paycheck and were laid off over the last few months. Yet you're trying to bring these Facebook employees under your umbrella? How about you help bring some other people up?
It's just shocking how out of touch you SV FAANG types are. I'm glad you're actually tweeting about important things this weekend, though.
- viraptor 6y agoThat sounds unfair. Of course you very accustomed to working with tools you work with every day, especially if they're good. You'll also never find a 1:1 match between companies though and not-bad people can switch between systems as needed. Unless you need an intermediate level boilerplate writer ready to go with tech X and Y from day 1, it should be fine. Why not say: These are people experienced with systems that work well. Maybe they can bring those workflows over and improve the company when they come here.
- hobs 6y agoBecause their tooling knowledge is rearranging deck chairs on the titanic compared to their willingness to sell out their own people for a buck.
- crsmithdev 6y agoSupport for your claim?
- drunkpotato 6y agoThat is a very obnoxious way of saying you disagree. Please don’t do that in a discussion forum like this.
- pavs 6y agoThat sounded like an openion not a claim.
- mellosouls 6y agoBecause it's pretty clear the point of the comment was the lack of ethics in pursuit of money. Not everybody wants to work at places like that, or with people like that. What's the point in them bringing technical expertise to your environment if they poison the culture with their amorality and venality? Money isn't everything, some of us know that, some of us don't care. Assuming the premise, natch. :)
- viraptor 6y agoThe post was much shorter when I responded and the technical bit was a more significant part of it. I totally get the other points, but they stand on their own.
- mellosouls 6y agoah right, understand now, cheers
- drunkpotato 6y agoThis is the kind of discussion I love to see! I do wish the top comment showed that it was edited to make it more clear.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- nv-vn 6y agoYes, because everyone who works or has worked at Facebook is amoral and just after money...
- dabbernaught420 6y agoFAANG talking down on other FAANG seems funny.
- mjayhn 6y agoI'm not FAANG just a concerned contributor who gets to work with them daily and was watching this unfold while getting tear gassed standing in drum circles this weekend. Unless this is about G attacking FBers, yeah, that has been fun to watch. As usual the FB'ers are pretty silent about everything. Couple of "hi i work for fb and want to leave what should i do" posts but that was all I really saw.
- reroute1 6y agoI'm concerned for someone who has so much wrongly placed anger... dude you're all worked up about Facebook for no reason, get real they aren't the enemy
- mjayhn 6y agoI just threw an off the wall mention that I was out protesting and getting tear gas shot at me this weekend and you're commenting that my anger toward FB is misplaced? Huh, wonder why I'm worked up.
- reroute1 6y agoYeah me too because unless mark Zuckerberg shot tear gas at you I still don't get it. You just sound really mad at FB and silicon valley for no good reason
- adjkant 6y ago> You just sound really mad at FB and silicon valley for no good reason As a reader of Hacker News, it'd be quite hard to imagine you don't have at least have an understanding of some reasons to dislike Facebook or Silicon Valley. Not agreement, but at least an understanding. Every week it seems there is something posted for both topics...
- leroy_masochist 6y agoThis would hit harder if you mentioned where you work -- i.e., on whose behalf you're deciding not to hire devs with FB on their resumes.
- onlyrealcuzzo 6y agoWould it actually be helpful? Or are you just baiting to get OP fired?
- leroy_masochist 6y agoI have no idea whether OP would be fired if they mention where they work. While through context I'd infer that they're interviewing people on behalf of an established tech company, it's also possible that they're running a small consulting business or something, such that publicly commenting on controversial topics wouldn't affect their relationship with their employer. Either way, saying that FB is bad and their devs are immoral and you would prefer not to hire them because they demonstrate their lack of backbone by not standing up to Zuck is a pretty ironic thing to be posting anonymously.
- jcims 6y agoI think it would be helpful because OP's post smells a lot like sanctimonious grandstanding.
- TeaDrunk 6y agoI don’t know if it would be that effective- it’s clear this persons post is currently in the positive. It’s highly likely there are other people in positions where they can hire others who have contributed to keeping the position in the positive score range (or at least not so negative that you have to highlight it to see it). By making it more broad we can assume that a silent chunk of people upvoting it agree for their own companies and positions of power too, and those we can’t pull aside to ask who they work for.
- mjayhn 6y agoThe intention of this post isn't to "hit hard" it's just to remind people who may have forgotten and are in positions of hiring power that there are a lot of people (devs/non-devs) unemployed or furloughed right now through no fault of their own that should be considered before throwing FB employees, who are some of the highest paid in the valley, parachutes.
- throwaway4715 6y agoHonestly, you're the person I wouldn't hire. Judging large swaths of people with no nuance for their individual situations. Now what does that remind me of... The selective outrage against Facebook for police brutality is something to behold. Facebook didn't exist during the lynchings of the 20th century or any number of race riots. You telling me things are somehow worse now that social media exists. Check your people instead cause I'm almost certain this comment was made by a white person.
- Traster 6y agoSorry, I might have misunderstood, but did you just equate choosing to work at Facebook with being black?
- throwaway4715 6y agoI'm really reaching to understand how you could interpret my comment that way. I'm equating judging large swaths of people in the way the parent does as equivalent to society assuming black people "deserve" what they get.
- x86_64Ubuntu 6y agoVoluntarily working for Facebook and being judged for is not the same as being black.
- x86_64Ubuntu 6y agoThe comment is somewhat coherent in the first line. I'm not sure what happened after that. Nor am I sure why he wrote "You are someone I wouldn't hire" as if such a topic would come up during the interviewing process.
- mellosouls 6y agoIf you accept the premise that these companies do evil, then its entirely appropriate to criticise those who enable that. Take the big bucks, take the criticism. Edit: your racial jibe has no place in intelligent discussion.
- elteto 6y agoPassing judgment on thousands of employees like this is really no better either, you are just imposing your own morals on them.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- walls 6y agoAh the "I was just doing my job" defense.
- elteto 6y agoNo, not at all. Don’t get me wrong, I myself would not work at Facebook because of my _own_ morals. But I draw a line between what I believe in and how I project those beliefs onto others. If there’s a thing I’ve learned in life is that reality is extremely nuanced and passing blanket judgements like the above is almost always bound to be wrong.
- inopinatus 6y agoThe Philip Morris of tech.
- elteto 6y agoSee my other reply on this same thread. I would never work for Philip Morris in the same way I would never work for FB. This mentality is extremely dangerous because it cuts both ways: imagine companies discriminating against employees because they believe abortion is a right, or because they are strong 2A supporters or detractors. If we go down this path, we _all_ end up losers. Attacking the employees is really not the way to go, in the end, they are the ones with the least leverage to influence anything.
- hart_russell 6y agoIt’s really quite something to watch how quickly the self righteous vilify and stereotype entire swaths of people. Exactly the type of behavior they apparently abhor.
- Angostura 6y agoWe really need to make a list of all the people who are bastards, just to keep it straight. So far we have all Cops, Facebook employees, Google employees (or is it just some). Would be a handy reference.
- ceilingcorner 6y agoReally hope this is sarcasm.
- troughway 6y agoLuckily for us, they're already keeping those lists.
- adjkant 6y agoJust like this[1] dead post, you're bringing the lack of nuance, not the parent. [1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23378204 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23378204
- C1sc0cat 6y agothis is a joke Oh and phone company employees we are the worst :-) "We don’t care. We don’t have to. We’re the Phone Company."
- castlecrasher2 6y agoIs this sarcasm or are you really going to make a list? Might as well put literally every single company on there, because if you look hard enough there will be something someone is upset about.
- leesec 6y agoLol at Fbook's "attacks on democracy". You're the one that needs to prove your insane conspiracy theories bud. All Zuck said is that he doesn't think they should be the arbiter of truth, which is SMART, because otherwise they have to start censoring content for hundreds of millions of people, which they are bound to get wrong. Watch some of Alex Stamos talks if you think this such an easy problem to solve. Remind me again how Fbook takes away my right to vote? Lotta people downvoting me because of the notion that "Facebook is bad" but won't explain why.
- nikivi 6y agoThe truth is that they do censor content so words have no meaning.
- leesec 6y agoThey censor content that would lead to immediate harm. How would you prove a Trump post can lead to immediate harm? Is CNN immoral for reporting what he says? Is my Dad immoral for telling me what he says, becuz it might lead to harm? Don't shoot the messenger.
- elygre 6y agoImmediate harm. Like this iconic picture. Or breastfeeding. https://www.google.no/amp/s/www.wired.com/2016/09/norway-right-pissed-facebook-photo-censorship/amp https://www.google.no/amp/s/www.wired.com/2016/09/norway-rig...
- leesec 6y agoThis is exactly my point, clearly this is an instance of the algorithm innacurately censoring content. A bunch of things get swept up when you have to provide general guidelines for what to censor. And so you want them to censor more? And get even more wrong? Or do you think that Nudity should just be prohibited and Facebook should be 4chan? Or maybe Facebook should hire 20 million people to decide picture by picture which ones are OK? For the scale that Facebook is at, they do an amazing job of keeping the peace. https://youtu.be/ATmQj787Jcc https://youtu.be/ATmQj787Jcc Please watch this talk and realize Facebook is thinking really hard about what to allow, and how there are tradeoffs for any approach.
- djohnston 6y agoCare telling me where you make hiring decisions so I can avoid it like the self righteous plague it must be?
- lvs 6y agoDon't you think it might be a good moment to try to be righteous again?
- djohnston 6y agoBy rightousness I mean a zealous belief that you are right and those who disagree are wrong. There isn't any correctness or incorrect implication with righteousness: it can power civil rights movements and the reign of terror all the same. In this particular instance though, I am implying that OPs righteousness, devoid of nuance and juvenile in its simplicity, is indeed wrong. And I wouldn't work at an organization whose staff was curated by such a faulty logic.
- sbilstein 6y agoI went to university in Texas and so many people went to work in the Oil industry and even with an awareness of climate change issues, whenever I questioned them the answer was "Oil is a critical part of our energy infrastructure and someone will need to figure out how to get it out of the ground." It was fair reasoning but I always thought "you are a bright engineer, you don't have to be the person figuring this out, you could be taking your skills elsewhere and hopefully the oil industry will have to settle for worse talent." Yes, Facebook is valuable in many ways to people but do you, personally, need to be the person aiding the mining of information? If you are upset about the deleterious effects of Social why don't you work for Netflix? Or any of the other similarly compensated companies. You don't have to work for a 'social good' company but there are absolutely well paying companies out there with a neutral effect on society. Working at let's say Stitchfix or Salesforce or Microsoft doesn't make you a martyr but shit, at least it's not Facebook! I don't think my friends are evil for working in oil but I think there are alternatives to do less evil in the world. That same MechE working on oil could find just as challenging work elsewhere. If you are a talented ChemE how about working on batteries or pharmaceuticals (even tho that industry is shitty for other reasons, the output at least helps people stay alive.)
- rtx 6y agoYup, you can hear similar argument from meat eaters.
- sbilstein 6y agoLOL that's so me; I am not perfect. My partner went vegan a few years ago while she was eating a filet mignon at our anniversary dinner and just said "I'm not eating meat anymore." I don't eat meat at home now but I definitely get it when I'm out at a restaurant. Eeek. Occasionally she gets all 'cmon man' but usually it's OK.
- xwdv 6y agoBig words for a hiring manager at some small worthless company building a glorified CRUD app.
- xyst 6y agoHas the world lost its collective mind? Imagine discriminating based upon the employees work history. Who the fuck are you, mate? This is like throwing away a resume because the developer worked for a Pornhub subsidiary. “Oh this person worked in the adult industry, he probably wanked off all day. Hard pass. No interview or screening by actual technical people.” Take a hard look in the mirror, you might see yourself become the monster you have always hated.
- inopinatus 6y ago> Imagine discriminating based upon the employees work history. That is ... literally what CVs are for.
- freeone3000 6y agoThe idea that this doesn't happen is a bit laughable. Of course the choices you make of employer matter. They've always mattered, and they will continue to matter, because they represent exactly what your values are worth to you.
- ilikehurdles 6y agoThere are plenty of jobs out there. If someone has Palantir on their history they can apply somewhere else. What's so crazy about judging a resume by its contents? Why even submit one if it's not meant to influence the decision?
- SpicyLemonZest 6y agoIt's not that it's crazy - it's an effective way to accomplish your goals. They're just very toxic and socially harmful goals. It's a huge problem if the industry ends up partitioned into Democratic Tech and Republican Tech.
- adjkant 6y ago> Imagine discriminating based upon the employees work history. Who the fuck are you, mate? Last I checked that's time and time again what companies hire on based on every study, lol. Your issue seems to not be at all with prior work history, but hiring based on ethics. Given how much that is applied to arguments here on HN that are relevant to technical work, that seems at the very least like a valid factor that can absolutely effect work. As to your example, the big difference here is that you jumped to a conclusion about the person's activities that doesn't seem very reasonable to assume based on their employment history. The parent went company worked at -> tacit acceptance of their actions as a company (again, there's nuance here that should always be explored) -> possible negative effects on future job.
- city41 6y agoDo you believe you don't need to compromise morals to work at Google? They're not the most wholesome of companies. You pretty much need to compromise some morals to work just about anywhere. Just Facebook stands out as being more than most places in this regard. Your rant is unhelpful and applies broad stereotypes and assumptions to a lot of people. You also strongly imply you've never worked at a SV company, so you don't even have first hand experience here.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- dominotw 6y ago> You pretty much need to compromise some morals to work just about anywhere. Then how come only people at FB are protesting and no one else?
- dominotw 6y ago> Best of luck to those of you looking to leave. I would be shocked if even one of these people leave.
- neves 6y agoQuit men quit. One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results. If you are a Facebook/WhatsApp/Instagram employee, you must know by now that these companies won't change by inside forces. If you work in these companies, you are an accomplice of everything of bad that is happening in the world: from climate change apologists, the destruction of Amazon by Brazil's government, the killing of black people by American police. Quit. Now.
- mancerayder 6y agoTranslation: "If you don't agree with my moral notions of the correct balance between censorship v. expression, and various other complex nuanced philosophical notions, I'm going to insult you and hope that you never find a job again." Spoken like a lover of freedom and someone who should be upvoted to the top comment.
- Non24Throw 6y agoThe issue aside, you’re simply chastising a straw man that you’ve constructed by assuming the worst possible interpretation of every aspect of your opponent’s position, seemingly without ever having spoken to one of them. This is not an effective way to communicate. It’s just sanctimonious grandstanding. This is how you get lots of internet points while even further exacerbating the very same problem you’re railing against. And that’s coming from someone who agrees with you.