4 ms·

Care to explain why? There's riots in the streets because of police brutality, browser history can now be requested by law enforcement without a warrant, .. i m

by phyrex 6y ago

Care to explain why? There's riots in the streets because of police brutality, browser history can now be requested by law enforcement without a warrant, .. i mean OP has a point?

moduspol 6y ago
> There might be no future one at all, particularly not under the current administration. If "browser history" is even on your radar when responding to a claim like this, things may not be as bad as you think they are.
- scrollaway 6y ago
  If "browser history" is already off your radar when responding to a claim like this, you're beyond saving. What is it with this absurd need to defend how poorly your country is doing by essentially saying "hey at least we're not North Korea!"? Get your head out of the clouds here: Your country elected an atrocious president, who, with both some poor timing and some atrociously bad decision-making got handed a platter of crises that are completely beyond the capabilities of his administration. Now, as a direct result, your country is more divided than it has ever been in recent history. People are rioting while a pandemic is happening. Civilians are being shot, journalists are being arrested, and you're here, pretending everything is fine because you're not literally starving in a prison right now. Like, what? You want to wait&see even longer until this fully develops or you want to start fixing? Let that sink in: The people who say "it could be worse" are part of the problem.
  - moduspol 6y ago
    I'm not saying "it could be worse." I'm saying, "it's not as bad as it appears." Police brutality nationwide is not as bad as is being represented (despite the most recent case being a tragedy), and the reason people are comfortable protesting is because COVID-19 failed to meet apocalyptic expectations. Not to mention we have an election coming up, and there's a lot of people who have a vested interest in making things appear worse than they are. I don't support warrantless browser history requests, but it won't be too long until a generation who grew up with computers is actually in the legislature. It's a very solvable problem, and not in the same ballpark as protests in big cities or COVID-19.
    - scrollaway 6y ago
      > the reason people are comfortable protesting is because COVID-19 failed to meet apocalyptic expectations Risk is a trade-off. People are out there protesting because the problem is bad enough that it warrants risking lives over. And not just in an "I might catch COVID" way: People are being teargassed and shot. > there's a lot of people who have a vested interest in making things appear worse than they are. This cuts both ways: there's a lot of people who have a vested interest in making things appear better than they are. Consider this: I'm an outsider, and have no horse in that demented race. I follow what's happening over there because what does happen may impact my country. What I see does not look good, and there isn't really a debate about this on this side of the atlantic. The fact that whether your country is doing as bad as it appears to be is even in question just shows how divisive your media is. > I don't support warrantless browser history requests Well I'm glad to read that, but in this thread, warrantless browser history requests aren't the only thing you've been downplaying. Personally, I think you're trying to convince yourself that things aren't "that bad". The longer you do so, the harder it's going to hit when you realize not only it is that bad, but it's only gotten worse since.
      - moduspol 6y ago
        > People are out there protesting because the problem is bad enough that it warrants risking lives over. And not just in an "I might catch COVID" way: People are being teargassed and shot. I think the vast, vast majority are truly risking nothing and know it. What you see in the media are the tiny minority who know what they're getting into. > This cuts both ways: there's a lot of people who have a vested interest in making things appear better than they are. Consider this: I'm an outsider, and have no horse in that demented race. I follow what's happening over there because what does happen may impact my country. What I see does not look good, and there isn't really a debate about this on this side of the atlantic. I understand what you see doesn't look good, but what you're seeing is entirely filtered through what traditional and social media want you to see. You (presumably) don't have family all over the country you stay in contact with who know what it's really like here. And what is it like? There were some protests in certain areas of big cities. For everyone else (the vast, vast majority), it was just another weekend. > The fact that whether your country is doing as bad as it appears to be is even in question just shows how divisive your media is. Media is supposed to be divisive. If you're getting only one perspective from your media, you should already be concerned. > Well I'm glad to read that, but in this thread, warrantless browser history requests aren't the only thing you've been downplaying. Personally, I think you're trying to convince yourself that things aren't "that bad". The longer you do so, the harder it's going to hit when you realize not only it is that bad, but it's only gotten worse since. We're not at war. COVID-19 is on the way out. The fact that people are protesting over-emphasized police brutality is evidence things aren't as bad as they are. They're not protesting a lack of food, or access to drinkable water. Let's try and keep things in perspective here.
  - bluntfang 6y ago
    >What is it with this absurd need to defend how poorly your country is doing by essentially saying "hey at least we're not North Korea!"? I'm certain some of this sentiment is social media propaganda farms.
    - moduspol 6y ago
      Probably the Russians.
    - scrollaway 6y ago
      Sure in some places, but it seems unnecessary to imply it's the case for @moduspol.
    - kalleboo 6y ago
      That reaction long-predates social media propaganda farms. A similar argument that has come up for years and years is using Venezuela as an example of "Socialism" or "the anti-American-capitalist state". "See, socialism doesn't work, just look at Venezuela".
  - Supermancho 6y ago
    > If "browser history" is already off your radar when responding to a claim like this, you're beyond saving. I don't subscribe to your religion, so that's ok with me. I happen to think searching (and registering) social media is a progressively enlightened activity, similar to having any other record of action (criminal history) as an enduring element of identity. > The people who say "it could be worse" are part of the problem. Having a different standard of acceptability is not "part of a problem", from my perspective of what constitutes problems. Setting up an us vs them isn't a compelling call to action.
    - scrollaway 6y ago
      > Having a different standard of acceptability is not "part of a problem", from my perspective of what constitutes problems. Since you're in favour of said policy, I'm going to put aside whether or not it's a good idea to do this. More simply, my point is that claiming "things could be worse" is a problem and only serves as a path for things to get worse. Politics is like a plane crash. You can choose to correct course when the sensors start pointing in the wrong direction. If you keep going, you can still try to alleviate the issues even when it's too late to prevent some kind of disaster. You can crash and maybe still salvage something. But at no point in that whole chain of events is it productive to say "things could be worse". Ok, things could be worse. Then what do you do when they do get worse?
    - pjc50 6y ago
      > searching (and registering) social media .. says someone from an anonymous account.
      - Supermancho 6y ago
        Not sure what you mean by anonymous (vs identifiable). If you want to claim an identity online, I'm all for it. You should be able to own it and be accountable for it.
- dTal 6y ago
  Why, because browser history isn't sensitive? Let's have yours then. A police force with no accountability, the ability to pry into the details of your private life without a warrant, and the ability to incarcerate or even murder you without cause is basically what we used to call "secret police". I don't think it's alarmist to avoid countries with institutions like that.
  - moduspol 6y ago
    I mentioned this in another thread, but it's because I see it as just another example of legislators who didn't grow up with computers. It's bad, but we'll repeal it. And obviously you don't have to send your browser history to a company who can have it requested. Not quite North Korea yet.
    - antepodius 6y ago
      When has anything privacy-intruding ever been repealed?
joshuaissac 6y ago
The US is not even close to totalitarian. Even China, a far more repressive state, is not totalitarian. Totalitarian governments are those that are so authoritarian that they control just about all aspects of life of the residents. Only Eritrea and North Korea fit the bill in today's world. Yes, OP has a point, but his characterisation of the US is not accurate.
- usr1106 6y ago
  Of course that was a relative classification. When selecting my destinations for travel I do not start at the end of the list. And traditionally the US has been on a top rank. My daughter had a phase where she was excited about China. She was not happy with my clear refusal to travel there. I was in Russia once for 12 hours, because there was the possibility to go there without a visa. These decisions don't follow scientific criteria.
  - K0SM0S 6y ago
    Just to poke your brain, or anyone's, suppose we shared concerns and views on all topics. Now let's consider a spectrum of "how well are are individual rights upheld in practice?", with all the nuances. What's your short list of particularly good/best places in SE Asia/Oceania (that you'd be comfortable travelling to, but even work with, invest in? (Coming from the north Atlantic) I'm down to: - Australia + NZ - Taiwan (sadly HK seems 'compromised') - Singapore Pretty much in that order. That's the shortest this list has even been in my lifetime. What am I not seeing?
- azmodeus 6y ago
  I think comparing the US to China is misleading. Compared to the US in the past I can't tell if it's more totalitarian. Looking from the outside it looks more totalitarian. Freedom of speech and privacy have been eroding in the US. I don't know if police brutality is constant at this level though I think the large amount of military grade equipment the police have has increased. From my perspective it seems like a good idea for the US to reflect on where it is going compared to its past.

by phyrex 6y ago

Care to explain why? There's riots in the streets because of police brutality, browser history can now be requested by law enforcement without a warrant, .. i mean OP has a point?

moduspol 6y ago

> There might be no future one at all, particularly not under the current administration. If "browser history" is even on your radar when responding to a claim like this, things may not be as bad as you think they are.

scrollaway 6y ago
If "browser history" is already off your radar when responding to a claim like this, you're beyond saving. What is it with this absurd need to defend how poorly your country is doing by essentially saying "hey at least we're not North Korea!"? Get your head out of the clouds here: Your country elected an atrocious president, who, with both some poor timing and some atrociously bad decision-making got handed a platter of crises that are completely beyond the capabilities of his administration. Now, as a direct result, your country is more divided than it has ever been in recent history. People are rioting while a pandemic is happening. Civilians are being shot, journalists are being arrested, and you're here, pretending everything is fine because you're not literally starving in a prison right now. Like, what? You want to wait&see even longer until this fully develops or you want to start fixing? Let that sink in: The people who say "it could be worse" are part of the problem.
- moduspol 6y ago
  I'm not saying "it could be worse." I'm saying, "it's not as bad as it appears." Police brutality nationwide is not as bad as is being represented (despite the most recent case being a tragedy), and the reason people are comfortable protesting is because COVID-19 failed to meet apocalyptic expectations. Not to mention we have an election coming up, and there's a lot of people who have a vested interest in making things appear worse than they are. I don't support warrantless browser history requests, but it won't be too long until a generation who grew up with computers is actually in the legislature. It's a very solvable problem, and not in the same ballpark as protests in big cities or COVID-19.
  - scrollaway 6y ago
    > the reason people are comfortable protesting is because COVID-19 failed to meet apocalyptic expectations Risk is a trade-off. People are out there protesting because the problem is bad enough that it warrants risking lives over. And not just in an "I might catch COVID" way: People are being teargassed and shot. > there's a lot of people who have a vested interest in making things appear worse than they are. This cuts both ways: there's a lot of people who have a vested interest in making things appear better than they are. Consider this: I'm an outsider, and have no horse in that demented race. I follow what's happening over there because what does happen may impact my country. What I see does not look good, and there isn't really a debate about this on this side of the atlantic. The fact that whether your country is doing as bad as it appears to be is even in question just shows how divisive your media is. > I don't support warrantless browser history requests Well I'm glad to read that, but in this thread, warrantless browser history requests aren't the only thing you've been downplaying. Personally, I think you're trying to convince yourself that things aren't "that bad". The longer you do so, the harder it's going to hit when you realize not only it is that bad, but it's only gotten worse since.
    - moduspol 6y ago
      > People are out there protesting because the problem is bad enough that it warrants risking lives over. And not just in an "I might catch COVID" way: People are being teargassed and shot. I think the vast, vast majority are truly risking nothing and know it. What you see in the media are the tiny minority who know what they're getting into. > This cuts both ways: there's a lot of people who have a vested interest in making things appear better than they are. Consider this: I'm an outsider, and have no horse in that demented race. I follow what's happening over there because what does happen may impact my country. What I see does not look good, and there isn't really a debate about this on this side of the atlantic. I understand what you see doesn't look good, but what you're seeing is entirely filtered through what traditional and social media want you to see. You (presumably) don't have family all over the country you stay in contact with who know what it's really like here. And what is it like? There were some protests in certain areas of big cities. For everyone else (the vast, vast majority), it was just another weekend. > The fact that whether your country is doing as bad as it appears to be is even in question just shows how divisive your media is. Media is supposed to be divisive. If you're getting only one perspective from your media, you should already be concerned. > Well I'm glad to read that, but in this thread, warrantless browser history requests aren't the only thing you've been downplaying. Personally, I think you're trying to convince yourself that things aren't "that bad". The longer you do so, the harder it's going to hit when you realize not only it is that bad, but it's only gotten worse since. We're not at war. COVID-19 is on the way out. The fact that people are protesting over-emphasized police brutality is evidence things aren't as bad as they are. They're not protesting a lack of food, or access to drinkable water. Let's try and keep things in perspective here.
- bluntfang 6y ago
  >What is it with this absurd need to defend how poorly your country is doing by essentially saying "hey at least we're not North Korea!"? I'm certain some of this sentiment is social media propaganda farms.
  - moduspol 6y ago
    Probably the Russians.
  - scrollaway 6y ago
    Sure in some places, but it seems unnecessary to imply it's the case for @moduspol.
  - kalleboo 6y ago
    That reaction long-predates social media propaganda farms. A similar argument that has come up for years and years is using Venezuela as an example of "Socialism" or "the anti-American-capitalist state". "See, socialism doesn't work, just look at Venezuela".
- Supermancho 6y ago
  > If "browser history" is already off your radar when responding to a claim like this, you're beyond saving. I don't subscribe to your religion, so that's ok with me. I happen to think searching (and registering) social media is a progressively enlightened activity, similar to having any other record of action (criminal history) as an enduring element of identity. > The people who say "it could be worse" are part of the problem. Having a different standard of acceptability is not "part of a problem", from my perspective of what constitutes problems. Setting up an us vs them isn't a compelling call to action.
  - scrollaway 6y ago
    > Having a different standard of acceptability is not "part of a problem", from my perspective of what constitutes problems. Since you're in favour of said policy, I'm going to put aside whether or not it's a good idea to do this. More simply, my point is that claiming "things could be worse" is a problem and only serves as a path for things to get worse. Politics is like a plane crash. You can choose to correct course when the sensors start pointing in the wrong direction. If you keep going, you can still try to alleviate the issues even when it's too late to prevent some kind of disaster. You can crash and maybe still salvage something. But at no point in that whole chain of events is it productive to say "things could be worse". Ok, things could be worse. Then what do you do when they do get worse?
  - pjc50 6y ago
    > searching (and registering) social media .. says someone from an anonymous account.
    - Supermancho 6y ago
      Not sure what you mean by anonymous (vs identifiable). If you want to claim an identity online, I'm all for it. You should be able to own it and be accountable for it.
dTal 6y ago
Why, because browser history isn't sensitive? Let's have yours then. A police force with no accountability, the ability to pry into the details of your private life without a warrant, and the ability to incarcerate or even murder you without cause is basically what we used to call "secret police". I don't think it's alarmist to avoid countries with institutions like that.
- moduspol 6y ago
  I mentioned this in another thread, but it's because I see it as just another example of legislators who didn't grow up with computers. It's bad, but we'll repeal it. And obviously you don't have to send your browser history to a company who can have it requested. Not quite North Korea yet.
  - antepodius 6y ago
    When has anything privacy-intruding ever been repealed?

joshuaissac 6y ago

The US is not even close to totalitarian. Even China, a far more repressive state, is not totalitarian. Totalitarian governments are those that are so authoritarian that they control just about all aspects of life of the residents. Only Eritrea and North Korea fit the bill in today's world. Yes, OP has a point, but his characterisation of the US is not accurate.

usr1106 6y ago
Of course that was a relative classification. When selecting my destinations for travel I do not start at the end of the list. And traditionally the US has been on a top rank. My daughter had a phase where she was excited about China. She was not happy with my clear refusal to travel there. I was in Russia once for 12 hours, because there was the possibility to go there without a visa. These decisions don't follow scientific criteria.
- K0SM0S 6y ago
  Just to poke your brain, or anyone's, suppose we shared concerns and views on all topics. Now let's consider a spectrum of "how well are are individual rights upheld in practice?", with all the nuances. What's your short list of particularly good/best places in SE Asia/Oceania (that you'd be comfortable travelling to, but even work with, invest in? (Coming from the north Atlantic) I'm down to: - Australia + NZ - Taiwan (sadly HK seems 'compromised') - Singapore Pretty much in that order. That's the shortest this list has even been in my lifetime. What am I not seeing?
azmodeus 6y ago
I think comparing the US to China is misleading. Compared to the US in the past I can't tell if it's more totalitarian. Looking from the outside it looks more totalitarian. Freedom of speech and privacy have been eroding in the US. I don't know if police brutality is constant at this level though I think the large amount of military grade equipment the police have has increased. From my perspective it seems like a good idea for the US to reflect on where it is going compared to its past.