5 ms·

It requires a level of corporate control over politics that just doesn't exist in the US.

dathinab 6y ago
Oh, it does exist. Just not for labor unions and similar. From what I can tell corporate induced bs* laws seem to be more common there than here. (i.e. caused lobbying, not in the interest of the population)
- joe_the_user 6y ago
  The problem is corporations exert huge influence in the US but only indirectly through feeding various ideologies. These ideologies the exalt the market and enterprises, certainly but they tend to also.not understand how actual business works (the average American politicians has been claiming government should work like a small family lumber mill for generations). Today, I can't help but think the super rich of America (at least those not slaves to ideology themselves) must be rethinking their support for extreme polarizing positions and "market fundamentalism" as the Federal government abjectly fails to meet the challenges of unified approach to disaster and conflict that is it's overall purpose.
- hogFeast 6y ago
  That makes no sense. Look at the largest donors, unions are absolutely huge, and have a very outsized role in the US (although that isn't unusual).
jacobush 6y ago
I don't know what to make of this comment. On the one hand, it makes sense, on the other, corporate control over politics in the US is near complete. Maybe it just goes to show to show that corporations can not control themselves. They need to be guided.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- cat199 6y ago
  I believe OP means corporate in the sense of 'collective' rather than in the sense of 'legally created limited liability entity'
- hogFeast 6y ago
  It isn't anywhere near complete. In the US, corporations fight with the state. In most Nordic/North European countries, corporations are the state (the history is just totally different, large corporations have run those countries for decades). I will give you an example: Germany we can agree is a fairly rich economy, the average German citizen has the same net wealth as a Greek citizen...a country where the economy basically doesn't function, unemployment has been in the high teens for two decades, etc. I also knew someone who run a chemicals business in Europe. In the UK, unions fought every step the way, they negotiated huge salaries for members, they would make threats, they would strike. In Germany, they just rolled over. As long as you paid the right people off, low wages, subsidised loans, etc. They just did whatever management told them (I think people who talk about worker representatives on boards assume that there is some scrutiny going on...I have never seen this occur). The closest comparison is probably China. Very similar.
  - kazen44 6y ago
    are you serious in your reply? because claiming german unions didn't fight every step of the way is absurd. Unions and other left winged organisations played a major role in german history. Germany was the first country with a state supported pension and healthcare system. The SPD has been in power for a majority of germany's post-ww2 history together with CDU in the grand coalition and the average greek does not have the same net wealth as the average german.
throwaway2048 6y ago
"corporatism" != control by corporations, or anything at all do do with the concept of the modern concept of privately owned corporations necessarily. The term for that is corporatocracy, among other things.

Oh, it does exist. Just not for labor unions and similar. From what I can tell corporate induced bs* laws seem to be more common there than here. (i.e. caused lobbying, not in the interest of the population)

joe_the_user 6y ago
The problem is corporations exert huge influence in the US but only indirectly through feeding various ideologies. These ideologies the exalt the market and enterprises, certainly but they tend to also.not understand how actual business works (the average American politicians has been claiming government should work like a small family lumber mill for generations). Today, I can't help but think the super rich of America (at least those not slaves to ideology themselves) must be rethinking their support for extreme polarizing positions and "market fundamentalism" as the Federal government abjectly fails to meet the challenges of unified approach to disaster and conflict that is it's overall purpose.
hogFeast 6y ago
That makes no sense. Look at the largest donors, unions are absolutely huge, and have a very outsized role in the US (although that isn't unusual).

jacobush 6y ago

I don't know what to make of this comment. On the one hand, it makes sense, on the other, corporate control over politics in the US is near complete. Maybe it just goes to show to show that corporations can not control themselves. They need to be guided.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
cat199 6y ago
I believe OP means corporate in the sense of 'collective' rather than in the sense of 'legally created limited liability entity'
hogFeast 6y ago
It isn't anywhere near complete. In the US, corporations fight with the state. In most Nordic/North European countries, corporations are the state (the history is just totally different, large corporations have run those countries for decades). I will give you an example: Germany we can agree is a fairly rich economy, the average German citizen has the same net wealth as a Greek citizen...a country where the economy basically doesn't function, unemployment has been in the high teens for two decades, etc. I also knew someone who run a chemicals business in Europe. In the UK, unions fought every step the way, they negotiated huge salaries for members, they would make threats, they would strike. In Germany, they just rolled over. As long as you paid the right people off, low wages, subsidised loans, etc. They just did whatever management told them (I think people who talk about worker representatives on boards assume that there is some scrutiny going on...I have never seen this occur). The closest comparison is probably China. Very similar.
- kazen44 6y ago
  are you serious in your reply? because claiming german unions didn't fight every step of the way is absurd. Unions and other left winged organisations played a major role in german history. Germany was the first country with a state supported pension and healthcare system. The SPD has been in power for a majority of germany's post-ww2 history together with CDU in the grand coalition and the average greek does not have the same net wealth as the average german.

throwaway2048 6y ago

"corporatism" != control by corporations, or anything at all do do with the concept of the modern concept of privately owned corporations necessarily. The term for that is corporatocracy, among other things.