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I have become close to several extremely social people and discussed this quite a bit. I realized that they approach socializing the same way I approach enginee

I have become close to several extremely social people and discussed this quite a bit. I realized that they approach socializing the same way I approach engineering and the like. At a party they clearly see the subtle or not so subtle effects of their actions and gauge the situation on a meta level without even really realizing that they’re doing it. It’s almost as though some of my neural circuitry originally intended for socializing was applied to an awareness of “things” instead.

mettamage 6y ago
I experience this in a sense when I meditate deeply (= a 10 day retreat, 10 hours per day). What I see in my field of vision, I then feel in my body. It's a whole new information channel that I'm able to tap into, and it's lightning quick. It tapered down a bit since I'm not meditating anymore, but it didn't fully go away (this was 8 years ago). What I think that happens: my insula attached to the default mode network and is feeding information into it. It gives the ability of being much more sensitive at certain forms of empathy. I remember before I went in thinking: research says I'll be better at emotional intelligence when I do this, I wonder what will happen. 10 days later I realized I became a lot better at empathy. So my emotional intelligence did grow :) There's quite some research on this, but I'm going to be lazy and simply recommend Search Inside Yourself. Disclaimer: the experience discussed in this comment is one of the reasons why I chose my username back in the day. So I'm biased.
- sethammons 6y ago
  Care to plug the retreat? Or a similar option?
  - mettamage 6y ago
    Hmm... Yes, I guess? The issue is: the practice that I got was amazing, but the theory is... not worth listening to. Fortunately, it was cheap, so 10 hours of practice and 1 hour of entertainment (is what I called it) was fine. http://dhamma.org/ http://dhamma.org/ Though, if others have other Vipassana retreats, then don't consider this one as better. Also: I wouldn't go in expecting that you'll experience my description above. However, you can go in with the idea that you're training your emotional intelligence, somehow. It's up to you to discover how it happened. For me the effect was screamingly obvious. But I can't guarantee that it will be for you and if it isn't then it's tough to distinguish it from placebo. With all those disclaimers in place, the above website is where I did a retreat (3 times now).
    - loopz 6y ago
      Imagine going to the gym for years. It takes years of endurance, even your best efforts and intentions however imperfect. The results stay for life. Your mind-body is a complete vehicle, and others are even sharing the ride. Nobody can answer your life for you, though perspectives are broadened.
amelius 6y ago
> I realized that they approach socializing the same way I approach engineering and the like. That sounds like a dishonest way of treating people, and might be a reason why some people prefer to be more introvert.
- surfpel 6y ago
  I don't see it that way. They're not 'social engineering', they just have a greater understanding as to where interactions will go and the confidence to carry out said interactions. The only alternative for them is being willfully blind to social interaction which isn't a real option in my view.
- tjr225 6y ago
  I don’t know if that’s quite what they meant. I understood it as an “intuitiveness.” I used to work with young adults on the autism spectrum at a ymca camp and the higher functioning folks lacked the ability to intuitively interact with others- the same way I might not intuitively understand engineering problems. I get frustrated by them and don’t know what to do. Imagine if that is how you felt interacting with people on a very basic basis.
- rrmm 6y ago
  As long as your external actions and your underlying goals are in harmony there is no dishonesty. Look at it like this: I have a friend. Friends try to do good things for each other. My friend seems different today than they are usually. They are sad. My friend likes getting flowers. I want them to be happier. I will say something nice and buy them a flower. It cheered them up a bit. I will ask how they are, because I notice that other people do that for their friends and it helps. On the one hand you could say, hey that's calculated manipulation. Which it kind of is and that sounds negative and dishonest. But there is nothing dishonest about it. It's something many people might do without even thinking about which is why it seems odd to spell out as a rational process. But if you don't get it intuitively, you may have to resort to a rational process to figure out how to cheer your friend up.
licebmi__at__ 6y ago
I have the same theory, I noticed some intuitiveness when dealing when troubleshooting any kind of issue and even if I can explain ex-facto the rationality behind some approaches, I struggle to explain why I made that decision in the heat of the moment. I noticed the same struggle when I talk to more extroverted people abouth the problems when approaching people.

mettamage 6y ago

I experience this in a sense when I meditate deeply (= a 10 day retreat, 10 hours per day). What I see in my field of vision, I then feel in my body. It's a whole new information channel that I'm able to tap into, and it's lightning quick. It tapered down a bit since I'm not meditating anymore, but it didn't fully go away (this was 8 years ago). What I think that happens: my insula attached to the default mode network and is feeding information into it. It gives the ability of being much more sensitive at certain forms of empathy. I remember before I went in thinking: research says I'll be better at emotional intelligence when I do this, I wonder what will happen. 10 days later I realized I became a lot better at empathy. So my emotional intelligence did grow :) There's quite some research on this, but I'm going to be lazy and simply recommend Search Inside Yourself. Disclaimer: the experience discussed in this comment is one of the reasons why I chose my username back in the day. So I'm biased.

sethammons 6y ago
Care to plug the retreat? Or a similar option?
- mettamage 6y ago
  Hmm... Yes, I guess? The issue is: the practice that I got was amazing, but the theory is... not worth listening to. Fortunately, it was cheap, so 10 hours of practice and 1 hour of entertainment (is what I called it) was fine. http://dhamma.org/ http://dhamma.org/ Though, if others have other Vipassana retreats, then don't consider this one as better. Also: I wouldn't go in expecting that you'll experience my description above. However, you can go in with the idea that you're training your emotional intelligence, somehow. It's up to you to discover how it happened. For me the effect was screamingly obvious. But I can't guarantee that it will be for you and if it isn't then it's tough to distinguish it from placebo. With all those disclaimers in place, the above website is where I did a retreat (3 times now).
  - loopz 6y ago
    Imagine going to the gym for years. It takes years of endurance, even your best efforts and intentions however imperfect. The results stay for life. Your mind-body is a complete vehicle, and others are even sharing the ride. Nobody can answer your life for you, though perspectives are broadened.

amelius 6y ago

> I realized that they approach socializing the same way I approach engineering and the like. That sounds like a dishonest way of treating people, and might be a reason why some people prefer to be more introvert.

surfpel 6y ago
I don't see it that way. They're not 'social engineering', they just have a greater understanding as to where interactions will go and the confidence to carry out said interactions. The only alternative for them is being willfully blind to social interaction which isn't a real option in my view.
tjr225 6y ago
I don’t know if that’s quite what they meant. I understood it as an “intuitiveness.” I used to work with young adults on the autism spectrum at a ymca camp and the higher functioning folks lacked the ability to intuitively interact with others- the same way I might not intuitively understand engineering problems. I get frustrated by them and don’t know what to do. Imagine if that is how you felt interacting with people on a very basic basis.
rrmm 6y ago
As long as your external actions and your underlying goals are in harmony there is no dishonesty. Look at it like this: I have a friend. Friends try to do good things for each other. My friend seems different today than they are usually. They are sad. My friend likes getting flowers. I want them to be happier. I will say something nice and buy them a flower. It cheered them up a bit. I will ask how they are, because I notice that other people do that for their friends and it helps. On the one hand you could say, hey that's calculated manipulation. Which it kind of is and that sounds negative and dishonest. But there is nothing dishonest about it. It's something many people might do without even thinking about which is why it seems odd to spell out as a rational process. But if you don't get it intuitively, you may have to resort to a rational process to figure out how to cheer your friend up.

licebmi__at__ 6y ago

I have the same theory, I noticed some intuitiveness when dealing when troubleshooting any kind of issue and even if I can explain ex-facto the rationality behind some approaches, I struggle to explain why I made that decision in the heat of the moment. I noticed the same struggle when I talk to more extroverted people abouth the problems when approaching people.