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I have high-functioning autism. Does anyone have some suggestions for making and keeping friends? When I meet a friend, things seem to go really well at first,

I have high-functioning autism. Does anyone have some suggestions for making and keeping friends? When I meet a friend, things seem to go really well at first, and then my friend seems to slowly get bored of the interactions we have, and after a couple months I just don't hear from them again. Not sure what I'm doing wrong. Is there a scientific way to find out?

forgotmypw17 6y ago
Every day, try to think of something you can share with them, and then do it. Some ideas: Tell them about what made you smile that day. Neat moments that you appreciated, but they weren't there to share it with you. Food and drink. Whatever you're eating and enjoying, share it with that friend. Either invite them out or bring/send it to them. Text, pictures, and video. Funny and positive, no drama, politics, etc. Experiences. Think of something you like to do that can be shared, and invite them out to do it. Share your time and effort. Offer your help, once, maybe twice. Don't be pushy with it. If they accept, help them like a servant, doing exactly what they ask you. The basic idea is to consistently repeat the combination of "spending time together with you" and "day is improved". If you do one of these daily with five people for a month, I can almost guarantee you will end up with at least one friend. After that, you can focus on that one person more for a month to deepen your friendship. After that, add a few more people, but maintain friendship with the one person.
kstenerud 6y ago
I'm not sure if this helps, but after 45 years as a stranger in a strange land, the only friends I've managed to keep longer than a year have been autistic themselves. My wife is also autistic, and we both marvel over how, for the first time ever in our lives, our home is our sanctuary where we can just relax and be completely ourselves with all the weirdness that entails. All previous romantic relationships were stressful and ended badly because it felt like I was walking on eggshells, and couldn't understand why my SO kept getting upset. My wife had similar experiences in past relationships.
- bsder 6y ago
  > All previous romantic relationships were stressful and ended badly because it felt like I was walking on eggshells, and couldn't understand why my SO kept getting upset. My wife had similar experiences in past relationships. Just so you know, this is not an uncommon complaint in any romantic relationship. Human relationships are hard. Being "neurotypical" doesn't suddenly make them easy.
  - kaybe 6y ago
    > Just so you know, this is not an uncommon complaint in any romantic relationship. It's worth so much to be able to just ask, and the other party examines the issue and their feelings and simply tells you.
    - mrpopo 6y ago
      Until your partner gets tired of asking or being asked...
      - kstenerud 6y ago
        My wife asks all the time, and I don't get tired of it. In fact, it's refreshing, because everyone else has always just assumed the worst in a given situation and decided to "get back" at me for whatever they perceive. To this day there are many people who outright refuse to talk to me over a grudge from something I have no idea about ("you know what's wrong!"). Hell, I've even lost jobs over this kind of thing.
  - james_s_tayler 6y ago
    Which gives you some indication of just how much more difficult it can be for others.
nicoburns 6y ago
There's not a scientific way. But you can definitely improve on these kind of interactions. The chances that something you are doing something (or equally likely: not doing something) that you had not even considered is putting people off interacting with you. Do you have anyone in your life that you could ask for feedback? If not then you could look into Autism support services. There are people who specialise in exactly this kind of thing, and they will probably to be able to point you towards things quite quickly as they will most likely have seen the same things before. It's also worth considering if there are other groups of people that you may not be coming in to contact with who might be more interested in the same things as you. I know some people who now have a very strong friendship group who initially struggled simply because they grew up in an area / environment where there weren't many people like them.
- JacksonGariety 6y ago
  > Do you have anyone in your life that you could ask for feedback? Unfortunately, I don't. It's a catch-22. > It's also worth considering if there are other groups of people that you may not be coming in to contact with who might be more interested in the same things as you. I'm really interested in philosophy. Since January I've been using Bumble to try to find people who share this interests, but I haven't had any luck yet.
  - surfpel 6y ago
    Bumble is only slightly less shallow than tinder. Okcupid is much better suited for this task.
    - JacksonGariety 6y ago
      Isn't OkCupid for dating? Bumble has a mode specifically for finding friends.
      - surfpel 6y ago
        At the end of the day it’s up to you. When I used it plenty of people were there for just friends. No dedicated feature tho
MagnumPIG 6y ago
Not sure what you mean by scientific way, as there's no real way to test this objectively, maybe you've just had crap luck On the subject of social skills, there have been many books on the subject, traditionally titled under Asperger's: https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/12108.Top_social_skills_books_for_people_with_Aspergers https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/12108.Top_social_skills_... Friendships, like all relationships, must be nurtured to survive. A lot of neurotypical people are kinda crap at nurturing friendships naturally but they try to do so often in subconscious ways. If your social skills are below average you may not pick up on the subtle clues, so you'll have to make more explicit efforts to maintain the friendship, and explain to your friends what kind of gestures go toward nurturing it when it comes to yourself, ie you mostly consider time spent together, or chats, or phone calls, gifts, what have you. I'm not a psychologist but I'm a neurotypical person with a few high functioning autistic friends if you want my opinion on anything.
- terminalcommand 6y ago
  Speaking of books: Games people play by Eric Berne was an eye-opener for me. If you want to find a logical framework to wrap your head around social interactions, it is a useful book. For me at least, I found that watching comedy series helps a lot to figure out social transactions. As a positive byproduct you learn to make jokes, which can also help in your pursuit to become socially appropriate. I also find that if I stay away from computing for a while, I tend to get more normal. Putting an effort into dressing acceptably (clean, fitting clothes), getting regular haircuts, figuring out how to chit-chat, generally smiling and nodding are my current strategy to fit in.
Consultant32452 6y ago
I'm in the same boat. I've found that people with trauma appreciate me much more than normies. They forgive my awkwardness and appreciate my lack of emotional reaction to their issues. Hope this helps.
bad_user 6y ago
Not sure if this helps, however I have the same experience and I am not autistic. My wife has no problem keeping friends though and basically I benefit from the friends she keeps. The difference is that she keeps relationships hot by constantly messaging them (Whatsapp, etc), calling them or arranging hangouts. She's also a really good listener. My phone calls (e.g. with parents, sister, friends, etc) last for 5 minutes tops, her phone calls last for 30+ minutes :-) In other words if you want to keep friends, you have to be the one that contacts them (though careful not to creep them out). On the other hand don't feel bad with a high churn rate. This happens to everybody.
orthosTD 6y ago
They probably get bored because your relationship stagnates. Basically after some time its kinda normal to share deeper stuff, be vulnerable(both you and him, it builds trust), maybe do a Weekendtrip together. This can also sometimes backfire.. But thats basically how i formed my friendships so far Do you change your behaviour after you know Somebody for some time?
mjfl 6y ago
I experience a similar thing. I'm on the spectrum, and with new friends it's always an anxiety inducing countdown until they identify me as an "alien", after which we are really no longer friends - I am an other, to be ridiculed and/or avoided. It's gotten to the point where I don't really try to make friends unless I can detect that the other person is also on the spectrum.
philjohn 6y ago
My son is on the ASD spectrum, high functioning as well. This may not be the same with you, but he has a few passions that he will steer conversations towards if given half a change - do you think you might be doing this?
wbhart 6y ago
There is very likely not a reliable scientific guide to making and keeping friends, because it depends very much on the circumstances and the people involved. Some people have many shallow friendships, others just a few deep ones. Some people extend the hand of friendship early, others take years of persistence to become friends with. Some people value time spent together on shared experiences, others value talking, others value gifts or help in times of crisis and others value being told how good a friend they are (once the friendship is clearly there). Many people are friends with individuals they have known since high school and it is generally harder to make new friends after that point. It's also pretty easy to lose friends as you age due to differences of opinions or beliefs. Perhaps the biggest skills in making and retaining friends is finding common activities and experiences you can share with them (outings, games, sport, dining, interests, topics of discussion, etc.) and finding the right time to invite them to engage with you in such things. Very often there are logistical hurdles to overcome and that is all: do they have a car, is there a convenient bus, is the venue you are meeting nearby, are you available when they are, do they have a babysitter, is the suggested date suitable for them, have they currently got some other crisis or deadline to deal with, etc. I find that if I ask to spend time with people too often, they may think I am "clingy" or "needy" and push me away. If I ask too little, the friendship never really gets established. It's a balance that is different for everyone.
- pbhjpbhj 6y ago
  To add to your list: Some people don't have any close friends and don't have any [diagnosed or suspected] neural atypicalcy. Reflecting, I don't require people to have any obligation towards me, and if they don't want to spend time with me that's their call I'm not going to force myself on people, so when people just sort of drift past; that's just what happens. I feel like I could have friends if I was happy to play the part of someone who cared about TV celebrities, fawned over politicians, or idolised sportsmen. Perhaps one has to be more assertive and demanding to some extent?
  - loopz 6y ago
    You can find friends doing volunteer work, taking courses that interest you, various meetings and groups. You may need to either find a group that draws you in, or try to genuinely talk to people and get to know them. If your goal isn't to be friendly, nothing much will happen.
globular-toast 6y ago
I'm pretty autistic, but the funny thing is I don't keep friendships because I get bored, not them. I was a complete recluse during most of my time at university. I decided I wanted to mate with women when I was about 25 so started to make myself more "marketable". The first stage is being able to make friends. First thing is the way you look. People like you more if you're good looking. First step is to make sure you're in excellent shape. That means lean to the extend that you can see your cheeks, abdominal muscles and veins on your forearms are prominent. Get yourself a pull up bar and start doing chin ups and press ups every single day. Then once you're in shape you find a clothing style that works for you. Stick to classic. Don't dress like a child. Wear smart and expensive shoes. Aim to always dress slightly better than you should be at any event, but just slightly. Groom well. Smell good. Grow a beard if you can but keep it very well groomed. Shave your head if you're going bald. You might think this sounds silly so far, but looking good is very, very important. People will compliment you on your appearance. Take the compliments. Thank them. Do not automatically compliment them back. Second thing is to work on your personality. You will be smarter than 95% of people you meet. There's no doubt about it. You will know more and care more about most subjects that come up. Do not under any circumstances use this to "one up" people. The number one rule you need to keep in mind is to be positive. Do NOT tell people they are doing something wrong. Do NOT tell people you don't like something. Always continue a conversation in a positive way. If they mention a band you don't like, mention a band you do like. If they mention a technique that is suboptimal, mention a technique you have found works for you (not "is better"). If you employ this positive outlook along with a broad knowledge and range of interests you will be a person that people like. Hope it helps. Also, if you are willing to try drugs, MDMA might help you. I wouldn't recommend alcohol or cannabis to anyone, but MDMA is worth it.
- pbhjpbhj 6y ago
  >You might think this sounds silly // Not wanting to offend but "sociopathic" is the word that comes to mind for me. Like "I'll do this to manipulate people and induce this response". I'm not going to say you won't be successful, just that your approach sounds very clinical and lacking in warmth and personality. You do you, I guess.
graeme 6y ago
Small tip: look for smiles in the corners of the eyes. This happens when laughter is genuine. If you do things that make someone laugh genuinely, they will probably stick around. How to Win Friends and Influence people is also a masterful book for socializing. It basically teaches you what naturals do automatically.
- wirrbel 6y ago
  That's how you can spot if someone is smiling who wears a face mask. corner of the eyes. useful Covid-19-pandemic skill
  - monadic2 6y ago
    I’ve forced myself to smile more broadly so it’s actually visible, maybe I should keep the habit! I feel like it’s a crazy grin without the mask on though.
mettamage 6y ago
Hmm... this is just a suspicion. But one possible reason could be that you're too serious and not playful enough. I could totally miss the mark here, but that is what I've seen in my own life. I make a friend am too serious, couple of months later I am all by myself again. So I decided to become more playful, and that really worked! If you are noticing that you might be too serious yourself and might need some playfulness. Here are a couple of things I did: 1. Asking: how am I naturally already playful, I enhanced that. I simply looked harder for more situations to utilize that playfulness. 2. Understanding: what is playfulness? It took me 2.5 years to understand that it means to not be serious (e.g. the sky is purple and there BE CATS ON CATNIP ATTACKING US! <-- it's not funny per se but if practiced a bit people will play along, though this example is well, oh dear, it at least has cats :) ). 2.5 years of trying to get an emotional feel for playfulness. Yep, it didn't come easy but now I have a hang for it. It's quite fun :) 3. What type of playfulness can I do? This list is non-exhaustive. Note: always err on the side of being respectful if you feel a that a certain form of playfulness is too difficult to pull off. If you don't do that, then you risk being a little mean, and a little offending and all those things. It's not the end of the world, but it's simply not nice. The types that I know: - The roleplay: I once approached a woman in a club pretending I was her long lost brother and that I was raised in the jungle by apes and that I was still learning her language speaking very broken English. She laughed her ass off and played along. Who knew that pretending to learn English could be so fun! - The fantastical exageration: I already provided an example of that. - Teasing: teasing is like trying to hurt the other person with the twist that it should be positive and not actually hurt them. If this idea seems confusing, err on the side of being positive and not hurting people. - Trolling: it feels like teasing but it isn't. You basically try to fool someone a bit, but you do need to see if they are able to take it. Err on the side of caution and safety. One friend I have used to be a bit rigid. He's gotten used to me now. So with him I could be quite light saying like: "look, it's a red tree." "No Mettamage, it's brown!" "No it's red, it's like a hellspawn from Satan!" "What do you mean, it's so clearly brown, what are you smoking?" "Everrryything my friend. Want some? ;-)" "My god dude, everything? Haha, you're crazy mettamage" "I know :-)" "Hit me up" "For sure" "Oh, yea, now I see that tree is totally red!" (just to be super explicit: the smoking thing was a roleplay, no one smoked anything) - Musical improv: I did this since I was 4, it's second nature. Just pretend that life is one big improvized jazz band and hum and dance along with it to whomever you're talking to. It's quite Disney-like really, like some Disney character suddenly starts singing. 4. What happens if I fail? Are there failure modes that I can't recover from? If people simply think you said something silly but weird, you're fine. If you went a bit controversial and tried to be playful that might pose a problem, so the tricky bit is to stay light. My guide is to stay respectful, that helps a lot. 5. Are there forms of social imitation I could learn from? - Watch comedy that you like but is popular - Go to improv classes
TrinaryWorksToo 6y ago
The closest I've found to making and keeping friends has been the FBI interrogation manual, which explains how police officers who would normally scare a suspect can get them to disclose intimate details of crimes. https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/hig-report-august-2016.pdf/view https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/hig-report-august-2016.p... https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/hig-report-interrogation-a-review-of-the-science-september-2016.pdf/view https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/hig-report-interrogation... Obviously you're not entering an interrogation, and you also want to level the playing field by sharing information yourself. I think it's an evidence-based guide to how first impressions are formed, and what people often get out of social interactions.
- hanniabu 6y ago
  Maybe it's just me, but I'm really not seeing how to apply this
  - TrinaryWorksToo 6y ago
    Read the parts on rapport building
- Inu 6y ago
  >The closest I've found to making and keeping friends has been the FBI interrogation manual, which explains how police officers who would normally scare a suspect can get them to disclose intimate details of crimes. Sorry, but this is the funniest thing I've read on HN in a while.
  - conistonwater 6y ago
    If you're interested in improving your social skills at work, you might also enjoy the book How to Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen so Kids Will Talk. Um, seriously, all effective communication techniques are based on basically the same principles; there's a book by a former FBI hostage negotiator Chris Voss (Never Split the Difference) where he describes hostage negotiations with terrorists, and it all works in the workplace too. These two are significantly better than How to Win Friends and Influence Friends, which is mostly about sales rather than negotiations.
kick 6y ago
Some random things that might or might not apply to you in no particular order of importance: Don't use "friend-finder" sites so much; you talk about using one elsewhere in this thread, but that's not where it's at. They contain the worst of in-person friend-making and the worst of online friend-making, with few of the benefits. Hanging out at events happening near you with people of similar interests & just throwing an anime avatar on yourself and talking on microblogging websites will both do you far better: Get yourself to where the conversation's happening, don't get yourself to where people are looking for conversation. Make sure to contact others first, too, at least sometimes. Many times it becomes one-sided (X person is always calling Y person but Y person never calls X person) and that's enough to make just about anyone feel bad & alone. Make sure to keep things varied; talking about the same thing in a loop kills a lot of the enjoyment that comes with knowing people. Everyone has a lot of things they're interested in; try and scope out who you're talking to, and occasionally just throw in things you're interested in that you think align with their interests. This gradually expands the things you can talk about, and keeps things interesting for everyone in the long-term. Talk at least as much as you listen. "Being a good listener" is great! At least on paper. In reality if you just act as a soundboard, people find you dull. Contributing to the conversation is important! Don't let every conversation feel like it's the most important thing in the world. If every conversation feels important, most people (there's an exception with a certain academic type who live and die by this experience but they're few and far in-between if you're not intentionally seeking them out) will interpret it as stressful, and that'll eventually be enough to get them to back away. Make sure to maintain more than a handful of friendships at one time; almost no people will be able or willing to throw energy at you for the twenty hours you're awake in a day, but five, ten or twenty people allows you to fill your day with it while also not depending on any given person an unrealistic amount.
valuearb 6y ago
What I tell me kids is, balance conversations around your friends. Don’t tell them what’s on your mind, you can always get to that later. Ask them what is new with them, ask follow up questions, express interest, shock, delight, concern as needed. Make it your goal to learn more about them every conversation. It’s easy for my wife to do. Hard for me, and the kids to.
- cloudier 6y ago
  I also saw this advice in “How to make friends and influence people” but I found that following it alienated people: they often felt like they were being interrogated instead of enjoying a conversation.
m463 6y ago
> Is there a scientific way to find out? That's an interesting question. I'm reminded of the "3 compatibility questions" some university worked out for asking someone you were considering dating: - Do you like scary movies? - Have you ever traveled to another country alone? - Would you like to ditch it all and go live on a sail boat? I wonder if there are questions that would scientifically predict compatibility with an autistic person. Personally I have both (extended) family members, some friends and some coworkers who have (or I suspect have) autism or aspergers. I enjoy the quirkiness, but I also really enjoyed the big bang theory.
Dumblydorr 6y ago
Can you delve more into the details-- why does this occur? Maybe you could ask them, "I hope you don't mind my asking, I struggle to make friends and I'm wondering if I did anything off-putting?"
james_s_tayler 6y ago
It's much easier to make friends at the start of a school year. Or the start of anything really where a new group of people come together and bonds tend to form in that time. Outside of that regular participation in groups tends to lead to friendships but I find them of a shallower quality than the first variety. From my observations and what I read it seems that most people when they are adults actually have very few friends and there aren't many opportunities to make friends as an adult. Just as a baseline to compare to I guess...
searchableguy 6y ago
If you are okay with virtual friends...we can be friends. Interests: anime, programming stuff, reading, startups, playing bad guitar, debating about empathy and being a pedant sometimes. Currently just trying to be productive and improve myself - many shortcomings I ignored for a log time and need to change. Current reading list includes - some jap novels, how to win friends, statistical rethinking and logic theory. Current projects include - rewriting my site, start a blog series where I post about everything I am going to do or did to get a product from 0 to first paying customer. That includes all the bad crap I came up, all the bad ideas and absurdism which people don't often share. (email is in the profile)
todaysAI 6y ago
I have an aspergers son and run a 120-member social group for autistic adults and I can say that the #1 issue for the autistic wrt social interaction skills is that they care too much about the audience. I wrote a blogpost about it: https://ericlifeadvise.blogspot.com/2020/02/caring-what-other-people-think-creates.html https://ericlifeadvise.blogspot.com/2020/02/caring-what-othe...
JimmyRuska 6y ago
* Listen and be interested. Many people just respond with their own anecdotes, but people really do appreciate it when you listen to them and mirror their emotions on the topics, ask them questions and allow them to express their narrative. Being able share an experience with someone makes it easier to bond. When people are always turning the focus back to themselves, especially in a way that can negate, one-up, argue, try to solve, or dismiss, the intended emotions, it can end up draining. * The kids that were probably more heavily on the spectrum in school seemed they got teased often. They were targetted for being very defensive. Simple things become heated emotional arguments and especially when things are taken personally. The more someone would react emotionally, the more bullies would use them as a target. If something doesn't make sense, doesn't seem correct, or could have a negative connotation, it's best to not react with negative emotions immediately. Sometimes this is just part of word play or sarcasm that just isn't caught. Give the benefit of the doubt and try to clarify. Avoid arguing, and avoid people or statements that are just trying to get an emotional response, the actual things they say are just a mechanism to trigger that. * Catch up with people and see where they're at, try to understand what their goals and challenges are and how it's been evolving. Ask them about things they're passionate about and what's new in that space. Remember to think of them when you come across something they may find interesting. You may be passionate about things they're completely uninterested in and it may be worthwhile to skip those if you don't feel much resonance on particular topics. Try to find activities where you can both be really engaged. In general, show you care about people, teach them, help them reach their goals, be there for them when they need someone to listen. Fire your friends if they don't show some reciprocation, are always negative; self obsessed; pity seeking; complaining, only contact you when they want to offload, etc.
cameronsr 6y ago
No. Only trial and error. Most of those I've hung on to the longest didn't know what I was until years later. Though they knew I was different than most people.

forgotmypw17 6y ago

Every day, try to think of something you can share with them, and then do it. Some ideas: Tell them about what made you smile that day. Neat moments that you appreciated, but they weren't there to share it with you. Food and drink. Whatever you're eating and enjoying, share it with that friend. Either invite them out or bring/send it to them. Text, pictures, and video. Funny and positive, no drama, politics, etc. Experiences. Think of something you like to do that can be shared, and invite them out to do it. Share your time and effort. Offer your help, once, maybe twice. Don't be pushy with it. If they accept, help them like a servant, doing exactly what they ask you. The basic idea is to consistently repeat the combination of "spending time together with you" and "day is improved". If you do one of these daily with five people for a month, I can almost guarantee you will end up with at least one friend. After that, you can focus on that one person more for a month to deepen your friendship. After that, add a few more people, but maintain friendship with the one person.

kstenerud 6y ago

I'm not sure if this helps, but after 45 years as a stranger in a strange land, the only friends I've managed to keep longer than a year have been autistic themselves. My wife is also autistic, and we both marvel over how, for the first time ever in our lives, our home is our sanctuary where we can just relax and be completely ourselves with all the weirdness that entails. All previous romantic relationships were stressful and ended badly because it felt like I was walking on eggshells, and couldn't understand why my SO kept getting upset. My wife had similar experiences in past relationships.

bsder 6y ago
> All previous romantic relationships were stressful and ended badly because it felt like I was walking on eggshells, and couldn't understand why my SO kept getting upset. My wife had similar experiences in past relationships. Just so you know, this is not an uncommon complaint in any romantic relationship. Human relationships are hard. Being "neurotypical" doesn't suddenly make them easy.
- kaybe 6y ago
  > Just so you know, this is not an uncommon complaint in any romantic relationship. It's worth so much to be able to just ask, and the other party examines the issue and their feelings and simply tells you.
  - mrpopo 6y ago
    Until your partner gets tired of asking or being asked...
    - kstenerud 6y ago
      My wife asks all the time, and I don't get tired of it. In fact, it's refreshing, because everyone else has always just assumed the worst in a given situation and decided to "get back" at me for whatever they perceive. To this day there are many people who outright refuse to talk to me over a grudge from something I have no idea about ("you know what's wrong!"). Hell, I've even lost jobs over this kind of thing.
- james_s_tayler 6y ago
  Which gives you some indication of just how much more difficult it can be for others.

nicoburns 6y ago

There's not a scientific way. But you can definitely improve on these kind of interactions. The chances that something you are doing something (or equally likely: not doing something) that you had not even considered is putting people off interacting with you. Do you have anyone in your life that you could ask for feedback? If not then you could look into Autism support services. There are people who specialise in exactly this kind of thing, and they will probably to be able to point you towards things quite quickly as they will most likely have seen the same things before. It's also worth considering if there are other groups of people that you may not be coming in to contact with who might be more interested in the same things as you. I know some people who now have a very strong friendship group who initially struggled simply because they grew up in an area / environment where there weren't many people like them.

JacksonGariety 6y ago
> Do you have anyone in your life that you could ask for feedback? Unfortunately, I don't. It's a catch-22. > It's also worth considering if there are other groups of people that you may not be coming in to contact with who might be more interested in the same things as you. I'm really interested in philosophy. Since January I've been using Bumble to try to find people who share this interests, but I haven't had any luck yet.
- surfpel 6y ago
  Bumble is only slightly less shallow than tinder. Okcupid is much better suited for this task.
  - JacksonGariety 6y ago
    Isn't OkCupid for dating? Bumble has a mode specifically for finding friends.
    - surfpel 6y ago
      At the end of the day it’s up to you. When I used it plenty of people were there for just friends. No dedicated feature tho

MagnumPIG 6y ago

Not sure what you mean by scientific way, as there's no real way to test this objectively, maybe you've just had crap luck On the subject of social skills, there have been many books on the subject, traditionally titled under Asperger's: https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/12108.Top_social_skills_books_for_people_with_Aspergers https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/12108.Top_social_skills_... Friendships, like all relationships, must be nurtured to survive. A lot of neurotypical people are kinda crap at nurturing friendships naturally but they try to do so often in subconscious ways. If your social skills are below average you may not pick up on the subtle clues, so you'll have to make more explicit efforts to maintain the friendship, and explain to your friends what kind of gestures go toward nurturing it when it comes to yourself, ie you mostly consider time spent together, or chats, or phone calls, gifts, what have you. I'm not a psychologist but I'm a neurotypical person with a few high functioning autistic friends if you want my opinion on anything.

terminalcommand 6y ago
Speaking of books: Games people play by Eric Berne was an eye-opener for me. If you want to find a logical framework to wrap your head around social interactions, it is a useful book. For me at least, I found that watching comedy series helps a lot to figure out social transactions. As a positive byproduct you learn to make jokes, which can also help in your pursuit to become socially appropriate. I also find that if I stay away from computing for a while, I tend to get more normal. Putting an effort into dressing acceptably (clean, fitting clothes), getting regular haircuts, figuring out how to chit-chat, generally smiling and nodding are my current strategy to fit in.

Consultant32452 6y ago

I'm in the same boat. I've found that people with trauma appreciate me much more than normies. They forgive my awkwardness and appreciate my lack of emotional reaction to their issues. Hope this helps.

bad_user 6y ago

Not sure if this helps, however I have the same experience and I am not autistic. My wife has no problem keeping friends though and basically I benefit from the friends she keeps. The difference is that she keeps relationships hot by constantly messaging them (Whatsapp, etc), calling them or arranging hangouts. She's also a really good listener. My phone calls (e.g. with parents, sister, friends, etc) last for 5 minutes tops, her phone calls last for 30+ minutes :-) In other words if you want to keep friends, you have to be the one that contacts them (though careful not to creep them out). On the other hand don't feel bad with a high churn rate. This happens to everybody.

orthosTD 6y ago

They probably get bored because your relationship stagnates. Basically after some time its kinda normal to share deeper stuff, be vulnerable(both you and him, it builds trust), maybe do a Weekendtrip together. This can also sometimes backfire.. But thats basically how i formed my friendships so far Do you change your behaviour after you know Somebody for some time?

mjfl 6y ago

I experience a similar thing. I'm on the spectrum, and with new friends it's always an anxiety inducing countdown until they identify me as an "alien", after which we are really no longer friends - I am an other, to be ridiculed and/or avoided. It's gotten to the point where I don't really try to make friends unless I can detect that the other person is also on the spectrum.

philjohn 6y ago

My son is on the ASD spectrum, high functioning as well. This may not be the same with you, but he has a few passions that he will steer conversations towards if given half a change - do you think you might be doing this?

wbhart 6y ago

There is very likely not a reliable scientific guide to making and keeping friends, because it depends very much on the circumstances and the people involved. Some people have many shallow friendships, others just a few deep ones. Some people extend the hand of friendship early, others take years of persistence to become friends with. Some people value time spent together on shared experiences, others value talking, others value gifts or help in times of crisis and others value being told how good a friend they are (once the friendship is clearly there). Many people are friends with individuals they have known since high school and it is generally harder to make new friends after that point. It's also pretty easy to lose friends as you age due to differences of opinions or beliefs. Perhaps the biggest skills in making and retaining friends is finding common activities and experiences you can share with them (outings, games, sport, dining, interests, topics of discussion, etc.) and finding the right time to invite them to engage with you in such things. Very often there are logistical hurdles to overcome and that is all: do they have a car, is there a convenient bus, is the venue you are meeting nearby, are you available when they are, do they have a babysitter, is the suggested date suitable for them, have they currently got some other crisis or deadline to deal with, etc. I find that if I ask to spend time with people too often, they may think I am "clingy" or "needy" and push me away. If I ask too little, the friendship never really gets established. It's a balance that is different for everyone.

pbhjpbhj 6y ago
To add to your list: Some people don't have any close friends and don't have any [diagnosed or suspected] neural atypicalcy. Reflecting, I don't require people to have any obligation towards me, and if they don't want to spend time with me that's their call I'm not going to force myself on people, so when people just sort of drift past; that's just what happens. I feel like I could have friends if I was happy to play the part of someone who cared about TV celebrities, fawned over politicians, or idolised sportsmen. Perhaps one has to be more assertive and demanding to some extent?
- loopz 6y ago
  You can find friends doing volunteer work, taking courses that interest you, various meetings and groups. You may need to either find a group that draws you in, or try to genuinely talk to people and get to know them. If your goal isn't to be friendly, nothing much will happen.

globular-toast 6y ago

I'm pretty autistic, but the funny thing is I don't keep friendships because I get bored, not them. I was a complete recluse during most of my time at university. I decided I wanted to mate with women when I was about 25 so started to make myself more "marketable". The first stage is being able to make friends. First thing is the way you look. People like you more if you're good looking. First step is to make sure you're in excellent shape. That means lean to the extend that you can see your cheeks, abdominal muscles and veins on your forearms are prominent. Get yourself a pull up bar and start doing chin ups and press ups every single day. Then once you're in shape you find a clothing style that works for you. Stick to classic. Don't dress like a child. Wear smart and expensive shoes. Aim to always dress slightly better than you should be at any event, but just slightly. Groom well. Smell good. Grow a beard if you can but keep it very well groomed. Shave your head if you're going bald. You might think this sounds silly so far, but looking good is very, very important. People will compliment you on your appearance. Take the compliments. Thank them. Do not automatically compliment them back. Second thing is to work on your personality. You will be smarter than 95% of people you meet. There's no doubt about it. You will know more and care more about most subjects that come up. Do not under any circumstances use this to "one up" people. The number one rule you need to keep in mind is to be positive. Do NOT tell people they are doing something wrong. Do NOT tell people you don't like something. Always continue a conversation in a positive way. If they mention a band you don't like, mention a band you do like. If they mention a technique that is suboptimal, mention a technique you have found works for you (not "is better"). If you employ this positive outlook along with a broad knowledge and range of interests you will be a person that people like. Hope it helps. Also, if you are willing to try drugs, MDMA might help you. I wouldn't recommend alcohol or cannabis to anyone, but MDMA is worth it.

pbhjpbhj 6y ago
>You might think this sounds silly // Not wanting to offend but "sociopathic" is the word that comes to mind for me. Like "I'll do this to manipulate people and induce this response". I'm not going to say you won't be successful, just that your approach sounds very clinical and lacking in warmth and personality. You do you, I guess.

graeme 6y ago

Small tip: look for smiles in the corners of the eyes. This happens when laughter is genuine. If you do things that make someone laugh genuinely, they will probably stick around. How to Win Friends and Influence people is also a masterful book for socializing. It basically teaches you what naturals do automatically.

wirrbel 6y ago
That's how you can spot if someone is smiling who wears a face mask. corner of the eyes. useful Covid-19-pandemic skill
- monadic2 6y ago
  I’ve forced myself to smile more broadly so it’s actually visible, maybe I should keep the habit! I feel like it’s a crazy grin without the mask on though.

mettamage 6y ago

Hmm... this is just a suspicion. But one possible reason could be that you're too serious and not playful enough. I could totally miss the mark here, but that is what I've seen in my own life. I make a friend am too serious, couple of months later I am all by myself again. So I decided to become more playful, and that really worked! If you are noticing that you might be too serious yourself and might need some playfulness. Here are a couple of things I did: 1. Asking: how am I naturally already playful, I enhanced that. I simply looked harder for more situations to utilize that playfulness. 2. Understanding: what is playfulness? It took me 2.5 years to understand that it means to not be serious (e.g. the sky is purple and there BE CATS ON CATNIP ATTACKING US! <-- it's not funny per se but if practiced a bit people will play along, though this example is well, oh dear, it at least has cats :) ). 2.5 years of trying to get an emotional feel for playfulness. Yep, it didn't come easy but now I have a hang for it. It's quite fun :) 3. What type of playfulness can I do? This list is non-exhaustive. Note: always err on the side of being respectful if you feel a that a certain form of playfulness is too difficult to pull off. If you don't do that, then you risk being a little mean, and a little offending and all those things. It's not the end of the world, but it's simply not nice. The types that I know: - The roleplay: I once approached a woman in a club pretending I was her long lost brother and that I was raised in the jungle by apes and that I was still learning her language speaking very broken English. She laughed her ass off and played along. Who knew that pretending to learn English could be so fun! - The fantastical exageration: I already provided an example of that. - Teasing: teasing is like trying to hurt the other person with the twist that it should be positive and not actually hurt them. If this idea seems confusing, err on the side of being positive and not hurting people. - Trolling: it feels like teasing but it isn't. You basically try to fool someone a bit, but you do need to see if they are able to take it. Err on the side of caution and safety. One friend I have used to be a bit rigid. He's gotten used to me now. So with him I could be quite light saying like: "look, it's a red tree." "No Mettamage, it's brown!" "No it's red, it's like a hellspawn from Satan!" "What do you mean, it's so clearly brown, what are you smoking?" "Everrryything my friend. Want some? ;-)" "My god dude, everything? Haha, you're crazy mettamage" "I know :-)" "Hit me up" "For sure" "Oh, yea, now I see that tree is totally red!" (just to be super explicit: the smoking thing was a roleplay, no one smoked anything) - Musical improv: I did this since I was 4, it's second nature. Just pretend that life is one big improvized jazz band and hum and dance along with it to whomever you're talking to. It's quite Disney-like really, like some Disney character suddenly starts singing. 4. What happens if I fail? Are there failure modes that I can't recover from? If people simply think you said something silly but weird, you're fine. If you went a bit controversial and tried to be playful that might pose a problem, so the tricky bit is to stay light. My guide is to stay respectful, that helps a lot. 5. Are there forms of social imitation I could learn from? - Watch comedy that you like but is popular - Go to improv classes

TrinaryWorksToo 6y ago

The closest I've found to making and keeping friends has been the FBI interrogation manual, which explains how police officers who would normally scare a suspect can get them to disclose intimate details of crimes. https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/hig-report-august-2016.pdf/view https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/hig-report-august-2016.p... https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/hig-report-interrogation-a-review-of-the-science-september-2016.pdf/view https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/hig-report-interrogation... Obviously you're not entering an interrogation, and you also want to level the playing field by sharing information yourself. I think it's an evidence-based guide to how first impressions are formed, and what people often get out of social interactions.

hanniabu 6y ago
Maybe it's just me, but I'm really not seeing how to apply this
- TrinaryWorksToo 6y ago
  Read the parts on rapport building
Inu 6y ago
>The closest I've found to making and keeping friends has been the FBI interrogation manual, which explains how police officers who would normally scare a suspect can get them to disclose intimate details of crimes. Sorry, but this is the funniest thing I've read on HN in a while.
- conistonwater 6y ago
  If you're interested in improving your social skills at work, you might also enjoy the book How to Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen so Kids Will Talk. Um, seriously, all effective communication techniques are based on basically the same principles; there's a book by a former FBI hostage negotiator Chris Voss (Never Split the Difference) where he describes hostage negotiations with terrorists, and it all works in the workplace too. These two are significantly better than How to Win Friends and Influence Friends, which is mostly about sales rather than negotiations.

kick 6y ago

Some random things that might or might not apply to you in no particular order of importance: Don't use "friend-finder" sites so much; you talk about using one elsewhere in this thread, but that's not where it's at. They contain the worst of in-person friend-making and the worst of online friend-making, with few of the benefits. Hanging out at events happening near you with people of similar interests & just throwing an anime avatar on yourself and talking on microblogging websites will both do you far better: Get yourself to where the conversation's happening, don't get yourself to where people are looking for conversation. Make sure to contact others first, too, at least sometimes. Many times it becomes one-sided (X person is always calling Y person but Y person never calls X person) and that's enough to make just about anyone feel bad & alone. Make sure to keep things varied; talking about the same thing in a loop kills a lot of the enjoyment that comes with knowing people. Everyone has a lot of things they're interested in; try and scope out who you're talking to, and occasionally just throw in things you're interested in that you think align with their interests. This gradually expands the things you can talk about, and keeps things interesting for everyone in the long-term. Talk at least as much as you listen. "Being a good listener" is great! At least on paper. In reality if you just act as a soundboard, people find you dull. Contributing to the conversation is important! Don't let every conversation feel like it's the most important thing in the world. If every conversation feels important, most people (there's an exception with a certain academic type who live and die by this experience but they're few and far in-between if you're not intentionally seeking them out) will interpret it as stressful, and that'll eventually be enough to get them to back away. Make sure to maintain more than a handful of friendships at one time; almost no people will be able or willing to throw energy at you for the twenty hours you're awake in a day, but five, ten or twenty people allows you to fill your day with it while also not depending on any given person an unrealistic amount.

valuearb 6y ago

What I tell me kids is, balance conversations around your friends. Don’t tell them what’s on your mind, you can always get to that later. Ask them what is new with them, ask follow up questions, express interest, shock, delight, concern as needed. Make it your goal to learn more about them every conversation. It’s easy for my wife to do. Hard for me, and the kids to.

cloudier 6y ago
I also saw this advice in “How to make friends and influence people” but I found that following it alienated people: they often felt like they were being interrogated instead of enjoying a conversation.

m463 6y ago

> Is there a scientific way to find out? That's an interesting question. I'm reminded of the "3 compatibility questions" some university worked out for asking someone you were considering dating: - Do you like scary movies? - Have you ever traveled to another country alone? - Would you like to ditch it all and go live on a sail boat? I wonder if there are questions that would scientifically predict compatibility with an autistic person. Personally I have both (extended) family members, some friends and some coworkers who have (or I suspect have) autism or aspergers. I enjoy the quirkiness, but I also really enjoyed the big bang theory.

Dumblydorr 6y ago

Can you delve more into the details-- why does this occur? Maybe you could ask them, "I hope you don't mind my asking, I struggle to make friends and I'm wondering if I did anything off-putting?"

james_s_tayler 6y ago

It's much easier to make friends at the start of a school year. Or the start of anything really where a new group of people come together and bonds tend to form in that time. Outside of that regular participation in groups tends to lead to friendships but I find them of a shallower quality than the first variety. From my observations and what I read it seems that most people when they are adults actually have very few friends and there aren't many opportunities to make friends as an adult. Just as a baseline to compare to I guess...

searchableguy 6y ago

If you are okay with virtual friends...we can be friends. Interests: anime, programming stuff, reading, startups, playing bad guitar, debating about empathy and being a pedant sometimes. Currently just trying to be productive and improve myself - many shortcomings I ignored for a log time and need to change. Current reading list includes - some jap novels, how to win friends, statistical rethinking and logic theory. Current projects include - rewriting my site, start a blog series where I post about everything I am going to do or did to get a product from 0 to first paying customer. That includes all the bad crap I came up, all the bad ideas and absurdism which people don't often share. (email is in the profile)

todaysAI 6y ago

I have an aspergers son and run a 120-member social group for autistic adults and I can say that the #1 issue for the autistic wrt social interaction skills is that they care too much about the audience. I wrote a blogpost about it: https://ericlifeadvise.blogspot.com/2020/02/caring-what-other-people-think-creates.html https://ericlifeadvise.blogspot.com/2020/02/caring-what-othe...

JimmyRuska 6y ago

* Listen and be interested. Many people just respond with their own anecdotes, but people really do appreciate it when you listen to them and mirror their emotions on the topics, ask them questions and allow them to express their narrative. Being able share an experience with someone makes it easier to bond. When people are always turning the focus back to themselves, especially in a way that can negate, one-up, argue, try to solve, or dismiss, the intended emotions, it can end up draining. * The kids that were probably more heavily on the spectrum in school seemed they got teased often. They were targetted for being very defensive. Simple things become heated emotional arguments and especially when things are taken personally. The more someone would react emotionally, the more bullies would use them as a target. If something doesn't make sense, doesn't seem correct, or could have a negative connotation, it's best to not react with negative emotions immediately. Sometimes this is just part of word play or sarcasm that just isn't caught. Give the benefit of the doubt and try to clarify. Avoid arguing, and avoid people or statements that are just trying to get an emotional response, the actual things they say are just a mechanism to trigger that. * Catch up with people and see where they're at, try to understand what their goals and challenges are and how it's been evolving. Ask them about things they're passionate about and what's new in that space. Remember to think of them when you come across something they may find interesting. You may be passionate about things they're completely uninterested in and it may be worthwhile to skip those if you don't feel much resonance on particular topics. Try to find activities where you can both be really engaged. In general, show you care about people, teach them, help them reach their goals, be there for them when they need someone to listen. Fire your friends if they don't show some reciprocation, are always negative; self obsessed; pity seeking; complaining, only contact you when they want to offload, etc.

cameronsr 6y ago

No. Only trial and error. Most of those I've hung on to the longest didn't know what I was until years later. Though they knew I was different than most people.