5 ms·

We once rented a flat, in a nice building housing mainly retired people. One day we gave the place a good cleaning and hung out a mat to dry on the balcony. Wit

We once rented a flat, in a nice building housing mainly retired people. One day we gave the place a good cleaning and hung out a mat to dry on the balcony. Within half an hour the residents association which we didn't know existed were knocking on our door and demanding we take in the offending item.

JoeAltmaier 6y ago
I will never until my dying day, live under the thumb of an association. Its a magnet for pedantic busybodies.
- sturgill 6y ago
  Which is also why I lean towards libertarianism...
- JoshTriplett 6y ago
  Sometimes your choice is between a shorter commute and an HOA. Avoiding an HOA may cost you 5-10 extra minutes twice a day, 5 days a week. I completely agree with you, and at the same time, that criteria can turn an already difficult search into an impossible one.
  - pmiller2 6y ago
    Just to bring this into sharper focus: 10 minutes a day, twice a day, 5 times a week for 50 weeks a year amounts to 5000 minutes per year, or just a little over 83 hours. Personally, I would find that acceptable just to not have to live in a place where people tell me what signs I can place in my lawn or what color I can paint my front door, but opinions can and do vary from person to person. Oh, and BTW, the word "criteria" is plural. Its singular form is "criterion." Not that it takes away from your point, but consider it a tiny piece of friendly advice.
    - JoshTriplett 6y ago
      > Just to bring this into sharper focus: 10 minutes a day, twice a day, 5 times a week for 50 weeks a year amounts to 5000 minutes per year, or just a little over 83 hours. Or two full-time work-weeks worth of extra time, just spent commuting, every year. Definitely not worth it to me; in practice, the primary interaction I have with my HOA is the continued requirement to pay them. (All else being equal, I'd much rather not have one, but I wanted a walkable commute more.) > Oh, and BTW, the word "criteria" is plural. Its singular form is "criterion." Not anymore: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/criterion#usage-1 https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/criterion#usage-1 . "The plural criteria has been used as a singular for over half a century." Much like "data" and "datum", it's no longer an observed distinction; "this data" and "this criteria" are entirely correct. But in any case, I was talking about both HOAs and distance, so a more elaborate form would have been "that combination of criteria". One could also argue that an HOA is a whole collection of related problems in and of itself.
      - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
        Its not like the commute is useless time. I did it for years, and being alone with my thoughts (or the radio or an audiobook) was just another part of my life. Still I prefer not doing it, agreed. Anyway, false dichotomy? Not all housing choices within range are burdened with an association?
        JoshTriplett 6y ago
        > Anyway, false dichotomy? Not all housing choices within range are burdened with an association? That depends on where you are; in some cities, the vast majority of housing developments have an HOA.
monadic2 6y ago
As someone without a hope in the world for owning a house any time soon, what kind of teeth do these associations actually have to enforce their whims?
- mschuster91 6y ago
  If in the US, in some states even up until foreclosure.
- sojournerc 6y ago
  Depends on the HOA's, which I would avoid at all costs.
- jbuzbee 6y ago
  As part of the purchase, you are given the deed restrictions and you contractually agree in the closing process to follow them. We once backed out of a purchase when we read the overly strict restrictions. You also contractually agree that the association has the ability to fine you for violations and put a lien on your property if you don't pay. There are plusses and minuses. The minuses are obvious - PITA, picky busybodies, limited paint colors, landscaping restrictions, etc. The plusses are that in general, the whole neighborhood is typically better maintained - paint, lawn, general upkeep, etc. which affects your property value.
  - pbhjpbhj 6y ago
    Can't you buy from the owner and not sign the contract with the HOA? Presumably the HOA has a contractual grievance with the prior-owner; or are such HOA contracts enshrined in criminal law?
    - jbuzbee 6y ago
      My guess is that the restriction is already on the existing deed, originating with the first sale from the builder of the community. So it transfers with the property.
    - gamblor956 6y ago

JoeAltmaier 6y ago

I will never until my dying day, live under the thumb of an association. Its a magnet for pedantic busybodies.

sturgill 6y ago
Which is also why I lean towards libertarianism...
JoshTriplett 6y ago
Sometimes your choice is between a shorter commute and an HOA. Avoiding an HOA may cost you 5-10 extra minutes twice a day, 5 days a week. I completely agree with you, and at the same time, that criteria can turn an already difficult search into an impossible one.
- pmiller2 6y ago
  Just to bring this into sharper focus: 10 minutes a day, twice a day, 5 times a week for 50 weeks a year amounts to 5000 minutes per year, or just a little over 83 hours. Personally, I would find that acceptable just to not have to live in a place where people tell me what signs I can place in my lawn or what color I can paint my front door, but opinions can and do vary from person to person. Oh, and BTW, the word "criteria" is plural. Its singular form is "criterion." Not that it takes away from your point, but consider it a tiny piece of friendly advice.
  - JoshTriplett 6y ago
    > Just to bring this into sharper focus: 10 minutes a day, twice a day, 5 times a week for 50 weeks a year amounts to 5000 minutes per year, or just a little over 83 hours. Or two full-time work-weeks worth of extra time, just spent commuting, every year. Definitely not worth it to me; in practice, the primary interaction I have with my HOA is the continued requirement to pay them. (All else being equal, I'd much rather not have one, but I wanted a walkable commute more.) > Oh, and BTW, the word "criteria" is plural. Its singular form is "criterion." Not anymore: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/criterion#usage-1 https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/criterion#usage-1 . "The plural criteria has been used as a singular for over half a century." Much like "data" and "datum", it's no longer an observed distinction; "this data" and "this criteria" are entirely correct. But in any case, I was talking about both HOAs and distance, so a more elaborate form would have been "that combination of criteria". One could also argue that an HOA is a whole collection of related problems in and of itself.
    - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
      Its not like the commute is useless time. I did it for years, and being alone with my thoughts (or the radio or an audiobook) was just another part of my life. Still I prefer not doing it, agreed. Anyway, false dichotomy? Not all housing choices within range are burdened with an association?
      - JoshTriplett 6y ago
        > Anyway, false dichotomy? Not all housing choices within range are burdened with an association? That depends on where you are; in some cities, the vast majority of housing developments have an HOA.

monadic2 6y ago

As someone without a hope in the world for owning a house any time soon, what kind of teeth do these associations actually have to enforce their whims?

mschuster91 6y ago
If in the US, in some states even up until foreclosure.
sojournerc 6y ago
Depends on the HOA's, which I would avoid at all costs.
jbuzbee 6y ago
As part of the purchase, you are given the deed restrictions and you contractually agree in the closing process to follow them. We once backed out of a purchase when we read the overly strict restrictions. You also contractually agree that the association has the ability to fine you for violations and put a lien on your property if you don't pay. There are plusses and minuses. The minuses are obvious - PITA, picky busybodies, limited paint colors, landscaping restrictions, etc. The plusses are that in general, the whole neighborhood is typically better maintained - paint, lawn, general upkeep, etc. which affects your property value.
- pbhjpbhj 6y ago
  Can't you buy from the owner and not sign the contract with the HOA? Presumably the HOA has a contractual grievance with the prior-owner; or are such HOA contracts enshrined in criminal law?
  - jbuzbee 6y ago
    My guess is that the restriction is already on the existing deed, originating with the first sale from the builder of the community. So it transfers with the property.
  - gamblor956 6y ago