9 ms·

I am 80 years old and still working full time in IT. Although I evolved from pure programming to project management and business analysis the past few years.

by pxsant 6y ago

I am 80 years old and still working full time in IT. Although I evolved from pure programming to project management and business analysis the past few years. Originally started out working at Cape Canaveral as a radar and telemetry engineer and moved into programming after I left there. Whenever I interview, I completely ignore the age issue. If the interviewer is to dumb to recognize the value of my knowledge and experience, that is on them. Finally completed my PhD in Computer science when I was in my 60's.

gorn 6y ago
I just found this thread and it's so great. You are an inspiration dear sir/madam. Do you still exercise?
harisund 6y ago
I am sorry, but you are not a programmer anymore. You are a project manager or a business analyst. The reason you are able to completely ignore the age issue is because there's no ageism in hiring business analysts and project managers. The ageism is visible in hiring programmers, which most certainly you are not. You might "dabble" in code outside of work in your own spare time, but that doesn't make you a professional programmer, which is what this thread is about
- shlant 6y ago
  "I am sorry, but you are not a programmer anymore" Your gatekeeping is not welcome here. This isn't a competition. "The reason you are able to completely ignore the age issue is because there's no ageism in hiring business analysts and project managers. The ageism is visible in hiring programmers, which most certainly you are not." and your unfounded conclusions aren't welcome either.
  - adontz 6y ago
    I am just 37 but find myself much more comfortable in management than writing code, compared to 27yo myself. I can't understand why you shame someone for pointing at true facts.
    - detaro 6y ago
      It's a bit pointless given the commenter in question didn't even call themselves a programmer. Or comes across as doubling down: "I know you didn't call yourself a programmer, but just to make sure you know you don't count anymore I'll tell you explicitly". And of course being PM doesn't preclude programming too, so it's just guessing.
  - slightwinder 6y ago
    > This isn't a competition. Except it is, as that is the single goal of this thread: Find out who is the longest serving Programmer, not the oldest guy doing something with IT. His remark is not wrong in that context.
    - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
      But it is unnecessary, pedantic and mean. We can all read the programmer/analyst's post for ourselves; we don't need an interpreter.
      - newswasboring 6y ago
        By that logic we should only have single depth in comments. Everyone is reading every comment for themselves.
        JoeAltmaier 6y ago
        The "but they said this" posts add nothing. The thread is unchanged if they are removed. So I advise, don't post them. In addition that unnecessary post asserted personal things not in evidence, giving the most uncharitable interpretation which is actually in direct violation of this site's standards and practices.
        newswasboring 6y ago
        It does add something. If there is a direct question, and someone is answering it incorrectly it should be valid to tell them they misunderstood. Also calling someone a non programmer is not mean.
        JoeAltmaier 6y ago
        Nope. Not a charitable interpretation; not necessary by any means to 'correct' what is obviously an anecdotal comment in the same vein as the OP. Not even correct to call the commenter a non-programmer - assuming things not in evidence. A question like "But have you been continuously employed as a programmer?" could be reasonable and not mean-spirited.
  - MiroF 6y ago
    Don't really have a stake in this either way, but presumably to determine the "longest-serving programmer", it is a bit of a competition, no? Definitely the comment was mean-spirited, but the core - which is that if we are trying to determine longest programmer, this is likely not a contender - seems to be true?
    - shlant 6y ago
      as soon as you start to perceive online interactions as a competition, you get exactly the kind of attitude the original comment had. We can seek to figure out who might be the "longest-serving programmer" without being combative and dismissive. I don't think the OP is looking to claim the "Official Award for Longest-serving Programmer" as much as they are looking to start a discussion to learn more about others (which Ask HN is almost always for). This is an anonymous online forum after all, how much strict moderation and fact-checking of peoples history do you want to have?
  - booleandilemma 6y ago
    I don’t think the parent’s point is invalid. We’re seeking the oldest programmer, in this case someone who writes code professionally. If we want to play fast and loose with our definitions then I’m a farmer, because I grow plants in my backyard.
    - shlant 6y ago
      this is an online forum. Ask HN is for starting discussions. This isn't a rigid competition that needs to be strictly moderated. Even all that aside, his tone and dismissive attitude towards ageism is not welcome here.
- Supermancho 6y ago
  I propose the simplest metric. Point to a hash for a commit that made it into production (your project or a collaboration) in the last month. If you have that in hand, you're still "programming".
- IggleSniggle 6y ago
  I don't think you have any idea if they're still programming or not, and thus stating "you are not a professional programmer" is totally unfounded even if it turns out to be true. However, the reverse is also possible. They transitioned from "pure programming" only in the last few years. Most of the long-time programmers that I've known that transition to other roles keep programming. Some of them were absolutely brilliant programmers and it's a hard decision organizationally to take their time away from coding and put it into some other area. I've also known "professional programmers" that 1) don't seem to care about code much at all and 2) aren't writing much code at all, sloppy or otherwise. I think the label "programmer" can be descriptive of all sorts, and has more to do with how often the skill is deployed and less to do with job title/role. Just because your job title is "head chef" doesn't mean you don't still cook...in fact there's a good chance you can still run circles around your line cooks even if managing the kitchen means your knife skills are not as good as they once were.
fyfy18 6y ago
How do you find your brain works and how productive you are compared to say 20 years ago? My father is in his late 70s and gets quite tired during his day - I wonder if you keep working it keeps the brain more active. Also it must be weird going to a retirement party for someone who is 15 years younger than you :D
- pscoutou 6y ago
  Not OP and not in their age group but I would say it comes down to either genetics, lifestyle choices or combination of both. I made a bunch of lifestyle choices (lost weight, keto diet, being more active, less screen time at night, etc). As a result I've noticed a significant increase in energy levels and mental clarity.
  - philtar 6y ago
    Not to be rude but: > Not OP and not in their age group Then why are you answering?
    - 7thaccount 6y ago
      Even if not in their age group, it is still applicable. Someone in their 80's that has eaten right and excercises and gotten good sleep for 80 years probably has significantly more energy than someone who did the wrong things.
    - kshacker 6y ago
      He wanted to share similar experience with the caveats up front. Concept of free country, free world, free internet :) I had similar reconnaissance but now I hesitate to share. But challenge accepted, worst case is downvotes :) 4 years back, maybe 5 I used to think this is how old age was (would not mention my age but it is younger than the main OP), body slowly unable to do what is used to be able to do. Then after 2 stents and change in lifestyle, I find I can do same or more than what I could do 5 years back, maybe a decade back. Will it continue like this for next decade, or the decade after that? Who knows? But there are many things within the that are in the range of probability and it is on us to push towards the higher end of the range. For those who start disciplined, it may not make much of a difference, but think of an average person ... I think programming at 70 should be feasible for most as long as they fixed their lifestyle by 50. [Most but not all because this is a game of odds]
jkingsbery 6y ago
How did you go about getting your phd? Did you take a break from paid work to go to school? Did you work on your thesis nights/ weekends? Do you feel like you learned from your advisors, some if whom I'd imagine were younger than you? Did you study an area related to your work at the time? Or did you use it to learn a new area?
- stagger87 6y ago
  I am also interested in any responses to these questions. Even if not from the OP.
- manish_gill 6y ago
  +1 I'm deeply interested. Been thinking a lot about doing a Masters in AI/ML but I'd rather not stop working. Been considering part time masters programs but finding them is tricky.
  - jetti 6y ago
    I did my Master’s part-time at DePaul University with almost all of the program online while I was working. They have an AI track but I am not sure how good it is.
    - manish_gill 6y ago
      Do you think it was worth it? Did you like the program?
      - gcoladon 6y ago
        Have you considered https://omscs.gatech.edu/ https://omscs.gatech.edu/? Disclosure: I am taking my 6th course of 10 as a current student in that program
        aashu_dwivedi 6y ago
        You should definitely consider it, I am a graduate from the same program :)
mromanuk 6y ago
Why are you not yet retired? I can think of few strong reasons, but I would love to hear from you. (I started programming at 8, I’m 41 and I have no plans of stopping )
- pxsant 6y ago
  Not retired because I don't want to live on social security alone. That would be a bummer.
  - vecinu 6y ago
    What about retirement savings? If you had funded your 401(k) and IRAs with an engineer's salary for this many years you should have many millions to live off of.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - sah2ed 6y ago
      > What about retirement savings? If you had funded your 401(k) and IRAs with an engineer's salary for this many years you should have many millions to live off of. Retiring to millions may be true in theory for certain programmers, but certainly not true for all programmers. Reality is often different for everyone. As the African proverb says: “all fingers are not equal” meaning the outcome of a specific situation can differ across people. For instance, what if s/he had a financially draining medical emergency, forcing them to rejoin the workforce?
    - eternalny1 6y ago
      Many people suffer various setbacks in life ... take medical bankruptcy for example. You never know how it will turn out.
    - itsoktocry 6y ago
      >If you had funded your 401(k) and IRAs with an engineer's salary for this many years you should have many millions to live off of. And then what? Believe it or not, some people consider programming a blessing and fun. If it keeps you engaged, why not continue to get paid for it?
karaterobot 6y ago
At what age did you begin your first full-time programming job?
kizer 6y ago
Good for you! At 14 I was hooked, and knew that this - programming, IT, technology - was for me. I can see myself in your shoes some day. The "outside world" just doesn't get the allure sometimes ;). As a twenty-something, I'd love to work along side an "old timer". Many of the abstractions and technologies change in our field, but just as many foundational concepts stay constant. I'm sure I would learn so much. Best of luck to you.
lawwantsin17 6y ago
Evolved?
Konohamaru 6y ago
Is it true that everyone in the media during your childhood spoke in a nasally accent?
toadi 6y ago
I'm 43 now and working like 23 years in IT in various roles. Started a few companies and did that all on a high school diploma. One of my dreams is when I retire to finally go to university and get a proper degree.This more for emotional sentiment. My grandfather was a (fighter)pilot and later he worked senior management at a bank. His biggest regret was not going to uni himself(poor parents and the army paid for it), later that my mum didn't go uni (she became a teacher) and after that even his grandson didn't get a degree. Hopefully I can follow it online and I can speed up the lectures to 1,75x :d
- pakitan 6y ago
  > One of my dreams is when I retire to finally go to university and get a proper degree.This more for emotional sentiment I'm around same age and experience, though I'm actually getting a degree now. My advice is - don't. It's an unbelievable waste of money and time. My initial goal was to leverage the degree into a better job but my plans changed and now I'll just be left with a useless piece of paper. In any case, getting a degree once you retire would be even worse. Work on some real world project that you enjoy, rather than settling for doing menial tasks, doled out by people who may know less about the subject than you do, while being rewarded with virtual points/grades.
  - jdofaz 6y ago
    I finished an associates degree at 38 from a community college, one of the credits I used was 20 years old. I would agree some of the classes were box checking and pointless. The degree itself isn't useful but it did make me take a few classes I wouldn't have otherwise. I took physics 101 in person and absolutely loved it, I took art history online and didn't expect to like it but it turned out interesting. Assuming you can go somewhere where the credits don't expire I suggest taking one class a time when you have time available. Read the rate my professor reviews and look for the good teachers. Most of the time online is fine but don't be afraid to take a class in person, lots of older students at night classes.
TheMerovingian 6y ago
As someone that will work well past retirement age, what lessons or wisdom could you impart on us youngins'?
wing-_-nuts 6y ago
>I am 80 years old and still working full time in IT. Serious question. Why? I love coding; I'll probably code as long as I live, but I can't imagine tying myself down to a full time job beyond the point where I need the money.
- a1studmuffin 6y ago
  Some people just enjoy their job. I know several engineers who retired, only to return after a hiatus because they missed working with a team on something they were good at and passionate about. Work isn't always about money.
  - wing-_-nuts 6y ago
    Right, I can understand why someone might wish to work part time even if they didn't really need the money, but I don't see myself working full time beyond the point where I am fully financially independent from needing to.
headmelted 6y ago
"I've forgotten more than you'll ever learn, but I still remember most of it" seems like an appropriate response if the question is ever raised. Kudos to you for not losing your passion for the job!

by pxsant 6y ago

gorn 6y ago

I just found this thread and it's so great. You are an inspiration dear sir/madam. Do you still exercise?

harisund 6y ago

I am sorry, but you are not a programmer anymore. You are a project manager or a business analyst. The reason you are able to completely ignore the age issue is because there's no ageism in hiring business analysts and project managers. The ageism is visible in hiring programmers, which most certainly you are not. You might "dabble" in code outside of work in your own spare time, but that doesn't make you a professional programmer, which is what this thread is about

shlant 6y ago
"I am sorry, but you are not a programmer anymore" Your gatekeeping is not welcome here. This isn't a competition. "The reason you are able to completely ignore the age issue is because there's no ageism in hiring business analysts and project managers. The ageism is visible in hiring programmers, which most certainly you are not." and your unfounded conclusions aren't welcome either.
- adontz 6y ago
  I am just 37 but find myself much more comfortable in management than writing code, compared to 27yo myself. I can't understand why you shame someone for pointing at true facts.
  - detaro 6y ago
    It's a bit pointless given the commenter in question didn't even call themselves a programmer. Or comes across as doubling down: "I know you didn't call yourself a programmer, but just to make sure you know you don't count anymore I'll tell you explicitly". And of course being PM doesn't preclude programming too, so it's just guessing.
- slightwinder 6y ago
  > This isn't a competition. Except it is, as that is the single goal of this thread: Find out who is the longest serving Programmer, not the oldest guy doing something with IT. His remark is not wrong in that context.
  - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
    But it is unnecessary, pedantic and mean. We can all read the programmer/analyst's post for ourselves; we don't need an interpreter.
    - newswasboring 6y ago
      By that logic we should only have single depth in comments. Everyone is reading every comment for themselves.
      - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
        The "but they said this" posts add nothing. The thread is unchanged if they are removed. So I advise, don't post them. In addition that unnecessary post asserted personal things not in evidence, giving the most uncharitable interpretation which is actually in direct violation of this site's standards and practices.
        newswasboring 6y ago
        It does add something. If there is a direct question, and someone is answering it incorrectly it should be valid to tell them they misunderstood. Also calling someone a non programmer is not mean.
        JoeAltmaier 6y ago
        Nope. Not a charitable interpretation; not necessary by any means to 'correct' what is obviously an anecdotal comment in the same vein as the OP. Not even correct to call the commenter a non-programmer - assuming things not in evidence. A question like "But have you been continuously employed as a programmer?" could be reasonable and not mean-spirited.
- MiroF 6y ago
  Don't really have a stake in this either way, but presumably to determine the "longest-serving programmer", it is a bit of a competition, no? Definitely the comment was mean-spirited, but the core - which is that if we are trying to determine longest programmer, this is likely not a contender - seems to be true?
  - shlant 6y ago
    as soon as you start to perceive online interactions as a competition, you get exactly the kind of attitude the original comment had. We can seek to figure out who might be the "longest-serving programmer" without being combative and dismissive. I don't think the OP is looking to claim the "Official Award for Longest-serving Programmer" as much as they are looking to start a discussion to learn more about others (which Ask HN is almost always for). This is an anonymous online forum after all, how much strict moderation and fact-checking of peoples history do you want to have?
- booleandilemma 6y ago
  I don’t think the parent’s point is invalid. We’re seeking the oldest programmer, in this case someone who writes code professionally. If we want to play fast and loose with our definitions then I’m a farmer, because I grow plants in my backyard.
  - shlant 6y ago
    this is an online forum. Ask HN is for starting discussions. This isn't a rigid competition that needs to be strictly moderated. Even all that aside, his tone and dismissive attitude towards ageism is not welcome here.
Supermancho 6y ago
I propose the simplest metric. Point to a hash for a commit that made it into production (your project or a collaboration) in the last month. If you have that in hand, you're still "programming".
IggleSniggle 6y ago
I don't think you have any idea if they're still programming or not, and thus stating "you are not a professional programmer" is totally unfounded even if it turns out to be true. However, the reverse is also possible. They transitioned from "pure programming" only in the last few years. Most of the long-time programmers that I've known that transition to other roles keep programming. Some of them were absolutely brilliant programmers and it's a hard decision organizationally to take their time away from coding and put it into some other area. I've also known "professional programmers" that 1) don't seem to care about code much at all and 2) aren't writing much code at all, sloppy or otherwise. I think the label "programmer" can be descriptive of all sorts, and has more to do with how often the skill is deployed and less to do with job title/role. Just because your job title is "head chef" doesn't mean you don't still cook...in fact there's a good chance you can still run circles around your line cooks even if managing the kitchen means your knife skills are not as good as they once were.

fyfy18 6y ago

How do you find your brain works and how productive you are compared to say 20 years ago? My father is in his late 70s and gets quite tired during his day - I wonder if you keep working it keeps the brain more active. Also it must be weird going to a retirement party for someone who is 15 years younger than you :D

pscoutou 6y ago
Not OP and not in their age group but I would say it comes down to either genetics, lifestyle choices or combination of both. I made a bunch of lifestyle choices (lost weight, keto diet, being more active, less screen time at night, etc). As a result I've noticed a significant increase in energy levels and mental clarity.
- philtar 6y ago
  Not to be rude but: > Not OP and not in their age group Then why are you answering?
  - 7thaccount 6y ago
    Even if not in their age group, it is still applicable. Someone in their 80's that has eaten right and excercises and gotten good sleep for 80 years probably has significantly more energy than someone who did the wrong things.
  - kshacker 6y ago
    He wanted to share similar experience with the caveats up front. Concept of free country, free world, free internet :) I had similar reconnaissance but now I hesitate to share. But challenge accepted, worst case is downvotes :) 4 years back, maybe 5 I used to think this is how old age was (would not mention my age but it is younger than the main OP), body slowly unable to do what is used to be able to do. Then after 2 stents and change in lifestyle, I find I can do same or more than what I could do 5 years back, maybe a decade back. Will it continue like this for next decade, or the decade after that? Who knows? But there are many things within the that are in the range of probability and it is on us to push towards the higher end of the range. For those who start disciplined, it may not make much of a difference, but think of an average person ... I think programming at 70 should be feasible for most as long as they fixed their lifestyle by 50. [Most but not all because this is a game of odds]

jkingsbery 6y ago

How did you go about getting your phd? Did you take a break from paid work to go to school? Did you work on your thesis nights/ weekends? Do you feel like you learned from your advisors, some if whom I'd imagine were younger than you? Did you study an area related to your work at the time? Or did you use it to learn a new area?

stagger87 6y ago
I am also interested in any responses to these questions. Even if not from the OP.
manish_gill 6y ago
+1 I'm deeply interested. Been thinking a lot about doing a Masters in AI/ML but I'd rather not stop working. Been considering part time masters programs but finding them is tricky.
- jetti 6y ago
  I did my Master’s part-time at DePaul University with almost all of the program online while I was working. They have an AI track but I am not sure how good it is.
  - manish_gill 6y ago
    Do you think it was worth it? Did you like the program?
    - gcoladon 6y ago
      Have you considered https://omscs.gatech.edu/ https://omscs.gatech.edu/? Disclosure: I am taking my 6th course of 10 as a current student in that program
      - aashu_dwivedi 6y ago
        You should definitely consider it, I am a graduate from the same program :)

mromanuk 6y ago

Why are you not yet retired? I can think of few strong reasons, but I would love to hear from you. (I started programming at 8, I’m 41 and I have no plans of stopping )

pxsant 6y ago
Not retired because I don't want to live on social security alone. That would be a bummer.
- vecinu 6y ago
  What about retirement savings? If you had funded your 401(k) and IRAs with an engineer's salary for this many years you should have many millions to live off of.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - sah2ed 6y ago
    > What about retirement savings? If you had funded your 401(k) and IRAs with an engineer's salary for this many years you should have many millions to live off of. Retiring to millions may be true in theory for certain programmers, but certainly not true for all programmers. Reality is often different for everyone. As the African proverb says: “all fingers are not equal” meaning the outcome of a specific situation can differ across people. For instance, what if s/he had a financially draining medical emergency, forcing them to rejoin the workforce?
  - eternalny1 6y ago
    Many people suffer various setbacks in life ... take medical bankruptcy for example. You never know how it will turn out.
  - itsoktocry 6y ago
    >If you had funded your 401(k) and IRAs with an engineer's salary for this many years you should have many millions to live off of. And then what? Believe it or not, some people consider programming a blessing and fun. If it keeps you engaged, why not continue to get paid for it?

karaterobot 6y ago

At what age did you begin your first full-time programming job?

kizer 6y ago

Good for you! At 14 I was hooked, and knew that this - programming, IT, technology - was for me. I can see myself in your shoes some day. The "outside world" just doesn't get the allure sometimes ;). As a twenty-something, I'd love to work along side an "old timer". Many of the abstractions and technologies change in our field, but just as many foundational concepts stay constant. I'm sure I would learn so much. Best of luck to you.

lawwantsin17 6y ago

Evolved?

Konohamaru 6y ago

Is it true that everyone in the media during your childhood spoke in a nasally accent?

toadi 6y ago

I'm 43 now and working like 23 years in IT in various roles. Started a few companies and did that all on a high school diploma. One of my dreams is when I retire to finally go to university and get a proper degree.This more for emotional sentiment. My grandfather was a (fighter)pilot and later he worked senior management at a bank. His biggest regret was not going to uni himself(poor parents and the army paid for it), later that my mum didn't go uni (she became a teacher) and after that even his grandson didn't get a degree. Hopefully I can follow it online and I can speed up the lectures to 1,75x :d

pakitan 6y ago
> One of my dreams is when I retire to finally go to university and get a proper degree.This more for emotional sentiment I'm around same age and experience, though I'm actually getting a degree now. My advice is - don't. It's an unbelievable waste of money and time. My initial goal was to leverage the degree into a better job but my plans changed and now I'll just be left with a useless piece of paper. In any case, getting a degree once you retire would be even worse. Work on some real world project that you enjoy, rather than settling for doing menial tasks, doled out by people who may know less about the subject than you do, while being rewarded with virtual points/grades.
- jdofaz 6y ago
  I finished an associates degree at 38 from a community college, one of the credits I used was 20 years old. I would agree some of the classes were box checking and pointless. The degree itself isn't useful but it did make me take a few classes I wouldn't have otherwise. I took physics 101 in person and absolutely loved it, I took art history online and didn't expect to like it but it turned out interesting. Assuming you can go somewhere where the credits don't expire I suggest taking one class a time when you have time available. Read the rate my professor reviews and look for the good teachers. Most of the time online is fine but don't be afraid to take a class in person, lots of older students at night classes.

TheMerovingian 6y ago

As someone that will work well past retirement age, what lessons or wisdom could you impart on us youngins'?

wing-_-nuts 6y ago

>I am 80 years old and still working full time in IT. Serious question. Why? I love coding; I'll probably code as long as I live, but I can't imagine tying myself down to a full time job beyond the point where I need the money.

a1studmuffin 6y ago
Some people just enjoy their job. I know several engineers who retired, only to return after a hiatus because they missed working with a team on something they were good at and passionate about. Work isn't always about money.
- wing-_-nuts 6y ago
  Right, I can understand why someone might wish to work part time even if they didn't really need the money, but I don't see myself working full time beyond the point where I am fully financially independent from needing to.

headmelted 6y ago

"I've forgotten more than you'll ever learn, but I still remember most of it" seems like an appropriate response if the question is ever raised. Kudos to you for not losing your passion for the job!