6 ms·

For me the better precedent for Elon's eccentricities might be someone like Henry Ford. Ford was an undeniable genius and innovator in a way that inspired broad

For me the better precedent for Elon's eccentricities might be someone like Henry Ford. Ford was an undeniable genius and innovator in a way that inspired broad admiration, but he was also troublingly paternalistic with his workers--providing above-market pay and benefits but expecting them to live up to his moral standards in their personal lives. He was also a massive sponsor of anti-Semitic publications and, prior to Pearl Harbor, a Nazi sympathizer.

catalogia 6y ago
I think the comparison between Elon Musk and Henry Ford starts to break down a bit towards the end of your comment. Elon Musk tweets plenty I don't like, but he's far from a Nazi.
- mpfundstein 6y ago
  he? maybe you should read again the post of your parent....
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    I'm actually much more confused by your comment than the parent of yours.
- hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
  I think that's an ungenerous interpretation of the parent comment. Saying they are comparable are not saying they have the exact same vices. But while they both did great things, IMO they also have done some pretty awful things, but more importantly, the awful things they did were given undue deference because of their greatness in other areas.
- philwelch 6y ago
  That's certainly true and I don't think you can compare magnitudes.
- dleslie 6y ago
  This is definitely a hindsight is 20/20 moment. In an age where radio was new, where televisions were even newer, where transcontinental news took hours, days or even weeks to travel, the knowledge that the Nazis were engaging in mass murder was not readily available. When allied troops liberated the concentration camps they filmed everything that they saw because they were concerned that without footage no one would believe them. Why? Because it was a shock, a shock so unbelievable in writing that only video and photographic evidence would suffice.
  - jhgb 6y ago
    Wait, are you saying that people didn't notice that Nazis were mass-killing people until 1945? What had they been doing since 1939?
    - philwelch 6y ago
      The Nazis were in power for six years before 1939 and existed as a political movement since 1920.
      - jhgb 6y ago
        And they started mass-murdering people in 1939. The news were full of it.
        philwelch 6y ago
        Most of Henry Ford’s Nazi sympathies took place prior to 1939. In fact it might be fairer to say that the Nazis were the ones inspired by Ford’s open promotion of anti-semitism.
    - TeMPOraL 6y ago
      Yup. In fact, there are various stories of people in late 1930s who tried to get the word out to the wider world about what's starting to happen in Germany, and they were generally ignored. The world truly didn't learn about the camps until Nazi Germany was conquered.
- the_rosentotter 6y ago
  The slow ethnic cleansing and land theft being perpetrated by a close American ally, supported by many of the biggest American corporations and capitalists, seems a comparable situation.
api 6y ago
Howard Hughes feels like a better comparison to Elon Musk.
- dwd 6y ago
  Brunel would be my pick as a predecessor who Musk emulates. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isambard_Kingdom_Brunel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isambard_Kingdom_Brunel Brunels' achievements spanned both civil and naval engineering projects, and much like Musk he didn't so much invent something completely new, but innovated on existing systems. His work on propeller screws is very much in the same vein as Musk and the Raptor engine. Probably fair to say he was a larger than life figure in his day and a driving force during the industrial revolution.
  - api 6y ago
    Fascinating! He even helped get a pneumatic railway built, which failed, and reminds me a bit of hyperloop. If I had to bet on a Musk project that would fail it would be that one. Something about it just feels wrong to my engineering intuition... too tight of tolerances for a civil engineering project.
    - dwd 6y ago
      What the hyperloop set out to achieve was a worthy goal. The cost of high-speed rail in the US is astronomical so any solution that cuts that cost dramatically is a good thing. His plans for the LA-SF route was very much like what Brunel engineered for the GWR with a series of tunnels and bridges to minimise the gradient and allow for high speed and volume. I caught an InterCity125 a heap of times back in the early 80's while living near Chippenham running on the same line Brunel built. I think with Musk, it's the lesser known achievements like the big battery in South Australia that elevate him to the level of Brunel. https://reneweconomy.com.au/tesla-big-battery-outsmarts-lumbering-coal-units-after-loy-yang-trips-70003/ https://reneweconomy.com.au/tesla-big-battery-outsmarts-lumb...
- nickik 6y ago
  Elon doesn't like the Howard Hughes comparisons because Hughes innovations didn't change the everyday experience of people. See this story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNG6ZzDh9C8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNG6ZzDh9C8

catalogia 6y ago

I think the comparison between Elon Musk and Henry Ford starts to break down a bit towards the end of your comment. Elon Musk tweets plenty I don't like, but he's far from a Nazi.

mpfundstein 6y ago
he? maybe you should read again the post of your parent....
- saagarjha 6y ago
  I'm actually much more confused by your comment than the parent of yours.
hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
I think that's an ungenerous interpretation of the parent comment. Saying they are comparable are not saying they have the exact same vices. But while they both did great things, IMO they also have done some pretty awful things, but more importantly, the awful things they did were given undue deference because of their greatness in other areas.
philwelch 6y ago
That's certainly true and I don't think you can compare magnitudes.
dleslie 6y ago
This is definitely a hindsight is 20/20 moment. In an age where radio was new, where televisions were even newer, where transcontinental news took hours, days or even weeks to travel, the knowledge that the Nazis were engaging in mass murder was not readily available. When allied troops liberated the concentration camps they filmed everything that they saw because they were concerned that without footage no one would believe them. Why? Because it was a shock, a shock so unbelievable in writing that only video and photographic evidence would suffice.
- jhgb 6y ago
  Wait, are you saying that people didn't notice that Nazis were mass-killing people until 1945? What had they been doing since 1939?
  - philwelch 6y ago
    The Nazis were in power for six years before 1939 and existed as a political movement since 1920.
    - jhgb 6y ago
      And they started mass-murdering people in 1939. The news were full of it.
      - philwelch 6y ago
        Most of Henry Ford’s Nazi sympathies took place prior to 1939. In fact it might be fairer to say that the Nazis were the ones inspired by Ford’s open promotion of anti-semitism.
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    Yup. In fact, there are various stories of people in late 1930s who tried to get the word out to the wider world about what's starting to happen in Germany, and they were generally ignored. The world truly didn't learn about the camps until Nazi Germany was conquered.
the_rosentotter 6y ago
The slow ethnic cleansing and land theft being perpetrated by a close American ally, supported by many of the biggest American corporations and capitalists, seems a comparable situation.

api 6y ago

Howard Hughes feels like a better comparison to Elon Musk.

dwd 6y ago
Brunel would be my pick as a predecessor who Musk emulates. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isambard_Kingdom_Brunel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isambard_Kingdom_Brunel Brunels' achievements spanned both civil and naval engineering projects, and much like Musk he didn't so much invent something completely new, but innovated on existing systems. His work on propeller screws is very much in the same vein as Musk and the Raptor engine. Probably fair to say he was a larger than life figure in his day and a driving force during the industrial revolution.
- api 6y ago
  Fascinating! He even helped get a pneumatic railway built, which failed, and reminds me a bit of hyperloop. If I had to bet on a Musk project that would fail it would be that one. Something about it just feels wrong to my engineering intuition... too tight of tolerances for a civil engineering project.
  - dwd 6y ago
    What the hyperloop set out to achieve was a worthy goal. The cost of high-speed rail in the US is astronomical so any solution that cuts that cost dramatically is a good thing. His plans for the LA-SF route was very much like what Brunel engineered for the GWR with a series of tunnels and bridges to minimise the gradient and allow for high speed and volume. I caught an InterCity125 a heap of times back in the early 80's while living near Chippenham running on the same line Brunel built. I think with Musk, it's the lesser known achievements like the big battery in South Australia that elevate him to the level of Brunel. https://reneweconomy.com.au/tesla-big-battery-outsmarts-lumbering-coal-units-after-loy-yang-trips-70003/ https://reneweconomy.com.au/tesla-big-battery-outsmarts-lumb...
nickik 6y ago
Elon doesn't like the Howard Hughes comparisons because Hughes innovations didn't change the everyday experience of people. See this story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNG6ZzDh9C8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNG6ZzDh9C8