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Did the Italians Teach the French the Art of the Vinaigrette?
- Mediterraneo10 6y agoThe Italian influence on France since the Middle Ages has been vast and underappreciated. I speak French and I like learning the etymology of words with a good dictionary, and I am astounded at how many ordinary French terms are actually borrowings from Italian.
- simion314 6y agoI am curious how you check to be sure the words are not just from ancient latin?
- Mediterraneo10 6y agoBecause Italian shows different reflexes of Vulgar Latin phonemes then French does. So if a word is present in French with a phonetic outcome different from most words of Latin origin in French, then you can tell it is a later borrowing. Also sometimes you can trace the slow spread of an Italian word first to the medieval Occitan dialects spoken in southern France, and then only later into French spoken further north.
- simion314 6y agoThanks.
- jeromenerf 6y agoWell appreciated in fact, for over 2000 years. You know ... Rome.
- Mediterraneo10 6y agoMy post wasn't referring to the impact of the Roman Empire in terms of originally bringing Latin to France which, of course, everyone knows about. Rather, I was referring to the later wave of Italian > French borrowings post AD 1000 when Latin had long since diverged into the different Romance languages, and Italian was considered a prestige language in certain contexts.
- kergonath 6y agoItaly was the cool culture (or rather, the cool cultures) to emulate during the Renaissance; some borrowing is not that strange. A lot of artists and intellectuals felt they needed to travel Italy at that time and until the romantics in the 19th century, so they were lots of contacts besides the Italian wars. Purely out of curiosity, which words surprised you the most? AFAIK etymology for a lot of them are quite murky, but off the top of my head, “quarantaine” is a nice one. Even though they prefer “quatorzaine” these days...
- axlee 6y ago> Purely out of curiosity, which words surprised you the most? Bank (banque) is a fun one. It comes from the Lombard money lenders who used benches as makeshift tables. That's also why the root of the word is germanic despite coming from Italy.
- kergonath 6y agoI didn’t know that. Nice one!
- ashtonkem 6y agoThe word “bankrupt” comes from the process of ritually breaking said benches of a merchant who couldn’t make due on their debts.
- smogcutter 6y agoThat’s especially a fun one because it’s true even though it sounds totally apocryphal.
- graycat 6y agoGads, with all the OP, no actual modern, actionable recipe for Vinaigrette! [Uh, safe to say that currently Vinaigrette is not a stew with all four stomachs of a cow!] Here's my current standard: In a bowl of 1+ quarts, combine all but the oil and with a French style wire whip mix: 2/3 C (cup) red wine vinegar 1 1/2 T (tablespoon) finely minced garlic 3 T Dijon mustard 1/2 T dried basil 1/2 T dried oregano 2 T dried parsley 1/2 t salt pepper (to taste) 2 C olive oil While whipping, dribble in the olive oil to make an emulsion, held together by the mustard. For a more delicate flavor, for the herbs, use only thyme. Use on green salads, cooked, cold vegetables, e.g., green beans, artichoke hearts, sliced cold meats, maybe some more. What can be somewhat better, make a Vinaigrette for a Caesar salad by including with the above and before the oil: 1 egg boiled 10 seconds (to sterilize the outside of the shell), make a better emulsion, and add some flavor and viscosity 1 T Worcestershire sauce One 2.0 ounce can flat anchovies packed in oil, minced, with oil Toss with washed, dried, chilled Romaine lettuce and top with croutons (flavored with garlic and olive oil) and grated Parmesan cheese. Can serve both with French bread, maybe also with curls of sour cream butter. Either can be good. Indoors can show off a nice table setting. Outdoors can just make a big show! For still more, can serve the Caesar salad with chunks of, say, grilled chicken. Since recently moved, have not done either Vinaigrette in a while. Have accumulated nearly everything needed. Sooooo, time to do it again. Ah, "One of the good old-time flavors left to enjoy!".
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 6y agoYou can always tell an American salad dressing, because it has way too many ingredients. A vinaigrette consists of olive oil (3 parts) and good vinegar (1 part), shaken well. That's it. Maybe a dab of mustard, a pinch of salt, a twist of pepper. My mom -- controversially -- add a pinch of sugar. But dried herbs, garlic, mon Dieu, no.
- Gabriel_Martin 6y agoI like to rub the garlic on the inside of the bowl, and added a little dijon can't be skipped IMO
- akiselev 6y ago
- naetius 6y agoYes. And not only that. (I'm italian)
- mister_hn 6y agoStill, the art of bidet seems to be less sexy to them.