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Two things make this different: 1) There's record unemployment in the US and there's an active pandemic. People are unhappy and the country is a powder keg re

by djaque 6y ago

Two things make this different: 1) There's record unemployment in the US and there's an active pandemic. People are unhappy and the country is a powder keg ready to go off. 2) The footage this time is especially graphic. You can see the officer strangling George Floyd with his knee. You can see the unnervingly satisfied look on his face. You can hear George call out multiple times that he can't breathe. Then, after he stops moving you can watch the officer continue to strangle him for four minutes. You can also see three police officers that stood by and let it happen in the background. There's not much wiggle room here.

_Understated_ 6y ago
2) It's worse: One of the videos I saw had three of them kneeling on him while he was begging.
sfj 6y ago
Actually according to the autopsy, his knee on Floyd's neck did not cause his death. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11742264/george-floyd-autopsy-cops-restraint-death-minneapolis/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11742264/george-floyd-autopsy-... > The ME also claimed that the initial autopsy found no evidence that Floyd died of strangulation and traumatic asphyxia after Officer Derek Chauvin kneeled on his neck for more than eight minutes. Edit: I don't understand the downvotes. Provide evidence contrary to the narrative and get downvoted into oblivion? Isn't it valuable to know all the facts?
- t-writescode 6y ago
  I have trouble believing any source that accepts the claim that > Floyd was then told to step out of the car and handcuffed, and "actively resisted being handcuffed", according to body cam footage obtained the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension. When we have video evidence that suggests quite the contrary from a shop nearby: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9Tqs06YN_A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9Tqs06YN_A edit: yes, I know that maybe he resisted in invisible ways. And yes, I saw him fall over when he was getting in the cop car way up at the top of the screen at the end of the video (partly hidden by the 'watch next!' videos); but is that really sufficient 'active resistance' if you can call it that?
  - giantDinosaur 6y ago
    Why is footage always so annoying that the parts like the end are always in some annoyingly difficult angle, or distance, or something? It certainly looks more like he collapsed than tried to escape, but if you made me swear on oath I wouldn't be able to say with absolute certainty what happened at the end.
  - pdkl95 6y ago
    > "actively resisted being handcuffed" Even if someone WAS "actively resisting" - which was obviously not what happened in this case as seen in the above video evidence - intentionally strangling someone for 8+ minutes after they they are on the ground under the control of multiple officers is still murder! Some people seem to believe that "resisting arrest" is a capital offense that the police can punish immediately as prosecutor, judge, jury, and executioner. The police say someone (usually black) "resisted", so fsck due process and execute them? -sigh-
    - sfj 6y ago
      > intentionally strangling someone for 8+ minutes That's just it, though. According to the coroner's report, he wasn't strangled.
      - pdkl95 6y ago
        So what? I'm not an expert on medical terminology; there may be a more accurate term to use to describe the cause of death. I'm only using the term in the colloquial sense, which (in my opinion) is a good description of what happened according to the video evidence. But again, so what? Even if the death was technically caused by some other mechanism, it's still patently manslaughter when someone uses their knee to crush someone's neck for ~4 minutes until they stop moving. When that person continues using their knee to crush someone's neck for an additional ~4 minutes while ignoring the please from multiple bystanders to at least check for a pulse after he stopped moving, that demonstrates the intent and mens rea necessary to upgrade the charge of manslaughter to intentional murder. The technicalities of a medical report are not relevant. If this was some sort of freak accident, the officer should have stopped what he was doing and checked vital signs. If he didn't intend to kill, the officer should have been very surprised and/or concerned when the person under his knee stopped moving and calling for help.
- whymauri 6y ago
  There's going to be an independent autopsy organized by the family. To be honest, I'm skeptical of the "we investigated ourselves and found this convenient 'natural cause of death'."
- dannyr 6y ago
  What a crazy coincidence then that Floyd right died after a policeman pinned his knee to Floyd's neck for 8+ minutes huh?
  - trhway 6y ago
    sidenote: if by any miracle he didn't die (though how one can't die when the blood flow to the brain is cut-off?) then the 8 minutes of sadistic torture would have probably not even registered on anybody's radar. In the video it is so obvious that the police guy is immensely enjoying that power trip. It is puzzling why the society still allows police to apply chockhold, neck pressure, etc. - such actions affecting breathing and circulation are naturally causing involuntary convulsions which police happily interprets as "resisting", and thus they get and use their right to escalate the pressure/hold until the "resisting", ie. the convulsions, stop which frequently means death.
  - sfj 6y ago
    With 320 million people in the us, crazy coincidences happen every day. I'd be more surprised if they didn't happen.
- djaque 6y ago
  A report which being widely disputed by professional medical examiners. George Floyd seemed to be alive and walking around before he had his airway closed off.
  - t-writescode 6y ago
    Well, his chest compressed kinda like a how a constrictor (snake) kills its prey, so he could breathe out, but not sufficiently in; and, the leg probably cut off blood flow to his brain, not stopped him from breathing in; but, yes. ( not a doctor... been reading a loooot of Reddit )
- logeist 6y ago
  So it "contributed" to his death but did not "cause" his death. Is that the distinction trying to be made here?
  - magicalhippo 6y ago
    The link contains what seems to be a screenshot of the report. That screenshot says the report is preliminary, so I assume they do not want to state the cause in the preliminary findings.
- CamperBob2 6y ago
  Actually according to the autopsy, his knee on Floyd's neck did not cause his death. That isn't what the autopsy report said. The ME also claimed that the initial autopsy found no evidence that Floyd died of strangulation and traumatic asphyxia after Officer Derek Chauvin kneeled on his neck for more than eight minutes. Correct, he didn't die of strangulation or asphyxia. Someone who can't breathe can't say things like, "I can't breathe." Instead, Floyd died of circulatory insufficiency, subsequent to having a knee pressed on his neck for almost nine minutes. The medical details are completely irrelevant when it comes to determining responsibility for the outcome. [1] The officer is equally responsible regardless. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggshell_skull https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggshell_skull
  - t-writescode 6y ago
    > Someone who can't breathe can't say things like, "I can't breathe." According to the top post on this Reddit thread, written by a self-proclaimed restraint trainer and the major replies to them, this is absolutely, positively not the case: https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/comments/gsdwky/if_you_say_you_cant_breathe_youre_breathing/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/comments/gsdwky/if_you_... Apparently this is an old saying and is completely wrong. edit: to visualize this. One of the steps in death via a python is suffocation. During that process, you could speak many times, all the way until your lungs are out of air, but you'll never get air in your lungs again. Is having your ability to breathe severely reduced (say 10-20% capacity. Enough to exhale out words) not accurate enough for "I can't breathe" to be true?
    - CamperBob2 6y ago
      My understanding is that he was able to vocalize pleas for help for at least a couple of minutes. I don't know if his situation was directly comparable to being constricted by a python. I'll have to defer to more specialized expertise on that one. Point being, it doesn't matter in the least what the autopsy report says. He died of having a knee pressed down on his neck.
      - 6y ago
- magicalhippo 6y ago
  As in most things technical, the words are important. > the initial autopsy found no evidence that Floyd died of strangulation and traumatic asphyxia Strangulation: "Forensics The act of suffocating a person by constricting the trachea or upper airways"[1] Traumatic asphyxia: "Cyanotic asphyxia due to trauma; the extravasation of blood into the skin and conjunctivae, produced by a sudden mechanical increase in venous pressure, analogous to the Rumpel-Leede test; common in those who have been hanged and seen occasionally in crush injuries."[2] So what that initial statement says is that the knee did not directly suffocate him by blocking blood or air flow, nor was Flody's chest crushed. Keep in mind that breathing when you're face down on the ground can be difficult in itself, especially if you're not thin. And it is made a lot harder by having the upper part of your chest pinned to the ground. But even if the officer did not pin him to the ground with the knee, and just left him on the ground facing down, they should have checked on him when he said he couldn't breathe and that he was dying. Not doing so would be highly negligent. [1]: https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/strangulation https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/strangulati... [2]: https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/traumatic+asphyxia https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/traumatic+a...
t-writescode 6y ago
And crying for his mother. That's the mental note that's frozen in my mind right now. And how he is dead. People are rallying, people are protesting. He is still dead. For a bad check.
- whymauri 6y ago
  It wasn't until Killer Mike's speech in Atlanta that the gravitas of what George Floyd was saying while he was on the ground really hit me. >When a man yells for his mother, in duress and pain, and she is dead, he is essentially yelling "please God, don't let it happen to me." [0] I don't know if I'm just so tired and desensitized at this point that the situation didn't register the first time I saw the picture and transcript (I won't watch the video). And I think that's awful. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxHWVJYXkeU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxHWVJYXkeU
- lordnacho 6y ago
  > And crying for his mother. I think this is a very common story among soldiers who've seen a comrade get killed. People cry out for comfort in their last minutes.
- 14 6y ago
  I think the part you missed is this was not for a bad check. People are upset because he was profiled and falsely accused of writing a bad check. Then ultimately killed using justification of false accusations.
  - xboxnolifes 6y ago
    Even being falsely accused is almost irrelevant here. Someone was killed in a police encounter over a bad check, falsely accused or not. It's not like a false accusations of murder or some aggregated assault. It's a case of a bad check.
wafn 6y ago
You'd think a bunch of educated folk would realize that if you can say anything at all, then you absolutely can breathe. Stop spreading this falsehood.

by djaque 6y ago

_Understated_ 6y ago

2) It's worse: One of the videos I saw had three of them kneeling on him while he was begging.

sfj 6y ago

Actually according to the autopsy, his knee on Floyd's neck did not cause his death. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11742264/george-floyd-autopsy-cops-restraint-death-minneapolis/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11742264/george-floyd-autopsy-... > The ME also claimed that the initial autopsy found no evidence that Floyd died of strangulation and traumatic asphyxia after Officer Derek Chauvin kneeled on his neck for more than eight minutes. Edit: I don't understand the downvotes. Provide evidence contrary to the narrative and get downvoted into oblivion? Isn't it valuable to know all the facts?

t-writescode 6y ago
I have trouble believing any source that accepts the claim that > Floyd was then told to step out of the car and handcuffed, and "actively resisted being handcuffed", according to body cam footage obtained the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension. When we have video evidence that suggests quite the contrary from a shop nearby: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9Tqs06YN_A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9Tqs06YN_A edit: yes, I know that maybe he resisted in invisible ways. And yes, I saw him fall over when he was getting in the cop car way up at the top of the screen at the end of the video (partly hidden by the 'watch next!' videos); but is that really sufficient 'active resistance' if you can call it that?
- giantDinosaur 6y ago
  Why is footage always so annoying that the parts like the end are always in some annoyingly difficult angle, or distance, or something? It certainly looks more like he collapsed than tried to escape, but if you made me swear on oath I wouldn't be able to say with absolute certainty what happened at the end.
- pdkl95 6y ago
  > "actively resisted being handcuffed" Even if someone WAS "actively resisting" - which was obviously not what happened in this case as seen in the above video evidence - intentionally strangling someone for 8+ minutes after they they are on the ground under the control of multiple officers is still murder! Some people seem to believe that "resisting arrest" is a capital offense that the police can punish immediately as prosecutor, judge, jury, and executioner. The police say someone (usually black) "resisted", so fsck due process and execute them? -sigh-
  - sfj 6y ago
    > intentionally strangling someone for 8+ minutes That's just it, though. According to the coroner's report, he wasn't strangled.
    - pdkl95 6y ago
      So what? I'm not an expert on medical terminology; there may be a more accurate term to use to describe the cause of death. I'm only using the term in the colloquial sense, which (in my opinion) is a good description of what happened according to the video evidence. But again, so what? Even if the death was technically caused by some other mechanism, it's still patently manslaughter when someone uses their knee to crush someone's neck for ~4 minutes until they stop moving. When that person continues using their knee to crush someone's neck for an additional ~4 minutes while ignoring the please from multiple bystanders to at least check for a pulse after he stopped moving, that demonstrates the intent and mens rea necessary to upgrade the charge of manslaughter to intentional murder. The technicalities of a medical report are not relevant. If this was some sort of freak accident, the officer should have stopped what he was doing and checked vital signs. If he didn't intend to kill, the officer should have been very surprised and/or concerned when the person under his knee stopped moving and calling for help.
whymauri 6y ago
There's going to be an independent autopsy organized by the family. To be honest, I'm skeptical of the "we investigated ourselves and found this convenient 'natural cause of death'."
dannyr 6y ago
What a crazy coincidence then that Floyd right died after a policeman pinned his knee to Floyd's neck for 8+ minutes huh?
- trhway 6y ago
  sidenote: if by any miracle he didn't die (though how one can't die when the blood flow to the brain is cut-off?) then the 8 minutes of sadistic torture would have probably not even registered on anybody's radar. In the video it is so obvious that the police guy is immensely enjoying that power trip. It is puzzling why the society still allows police to apply chockhold, neck pressure, etc. - such actions affecting breathing and circulation are naturally causing involuntary convulsions which police happily interprets as "resisting", and thus they get and use their right to escalate the pressure/hold until the "resisting", ie. the convulsions, stop which frequently means death.
- sfj 6y ago
  With 320 million people in the us, crazy coincidences happen every day. I'd be more surprised if they didn't happen.
djaque 6y ago
A report which being widely disputed by professional medical examiners. George Floyd seemed to be alive and walking around before he had his airway closed off.
- t-writescode 6y ago
  Well, his chest compressed kinda like a how a constrictor (snake) kills its prey, so he could breathe out, but not sufficiently in; and, the leg probably cut off blood flow to his brain, not stopped him from breathing in; but, yes. ( not a doctor... been reading a loooot of Reddit )
logeist 6y ago
So it "contributed" to his death but did not "cause" his death. Is that the distinction trying to be made here?
- magicalhippo 6y ago
  The link contains what seems to be a screenshot of the report. That screenshot says the report is preliminary, so I assume they do not want to state the cause in the preliminary findings.
CamperBob2 6y ago
Actually according to the autopsy, his knee on Floyd's neck did not cause his death. That isn't what the autopsy report said. The ME also claimed that the initial autopsy found no evidence that Floyd died of strangulation and traumatic asphyxia after Officer Derek Chauvin kneeled on his neck for more than eight minutes. Correct, he didn't die of strangulation or asphyxia. Someone who can't breathe can't say things like, "I can't breathe." Instead, Floyd died of circulatory insufficiency, subsequent to having a knee pressed on his neck for almost nine minutes. The medical details are completely irrelevant when it comes to determining responsibility for the outcome. [1] The officer is equally responsible regardless. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggshell_skull https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggshell_skull
- t-writescode 6y ago
  > Someone who can't breathe can't say things like, "I can't breathe." According to the top post on this Reddit thread, written by a self-proclaimed restraint trainer and the major replies to them, this is absolutely, positively not the case: https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/comments/gsdwky/if_you_say_you_cant_breathe_youre_breathing/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/comments/gsdwky/if_you_... Apparently this is an old saying and is completely wrong. edit: to visualize this. One of the steps in death via a python is suffocation. During that process, you could speak many times, all the way until your lungs are out of air, but you'll never get air in your lungs again. Is having your ability to breathe severely reduced (say 10-20% capacity. Enough to exhale out words) not accurate enough for "I can't breathe" to be true?
  - CamperBob2 6y ago
    My understanding is that he was able to vocalize pleas for help for at least a couple of minutes. I don't know if his situation was directly comparable to being constricted by a python. I'll have to defer to more specialized expertise on that one. Point being, it doesn't matter in the least what the autopsy report says. He died of having a knee pressed down on his neck.
    - 6y ago
magicalhippo 6y ago
As in most things technical, the words are important. > the initial autopsy found no evidence that Floyd died of strangulation and traumatic asphyxia Strangulation: "Forensics The act of suffocating a person by constricting the trachea or upper airways"[1] Traumatic asphyxia: "Cyanotic asphyxia due to trauma; the extravasation of blood into the skin and conjunctivae, produced by a sudden mechanical increase in venous pressure, analogous to the Rumpel-Leede test; common in those who have been hanged and seen occasionally in crush injuries."[2] So what that initial statement says is that the knee did not directly suffocate him by blocking blood or air flow, nor was Flody's chest crushed. Keep in mind that breathing when you're face down on the ground can be difficult in itself, especially if you're not thin. And it is made a lot harder by having the upper part of your chest pinned to the ground. But even if the officer did not pin him to the ground with the knee, and just left him on the ground facing down, they should have checked on him when he said he couldn't breathe and that he was dying. Not doing so would be highly negligent. [1]: https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/strangulation https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/strangulati... [2]: https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/traumatic+asphyxia https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/traumatic+a...

t-writescode 6y ago

And crying for his mother. That's the mental note that's frozen in my mind right now. And how he is dead. People are rallying, people are protesting. He is still dead. For a bad check.

whymauri 6y ago
It wasn't until Killer Mike's speech in Atlanta that the gravitas of what George Floyd was saying while he was on the ground really hit me. >When a man yells for his mother, in duress and pain, and she is dead, he is essentially yelling "please God, don't let it happen to me." [0] I don't know if I'm just so tired and desensitized at this point that the situation didn't register the first time I saw the picture and transcript (I won't watch the video). And I think that's awful. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxHWVJYXkeU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxHWVJYXkeU
lordnacho 6y ago
> And crying for his mother. I think this is a very common story among soldiers who've seen a comrade get killed. People cry out for comfort in their last minutes.
14 6y ago
I think the part you missed is this was not for a bad check. People are upset because he was profiled and falsely accused of writing a bad check. Then ultimately killed using justification of false accusations.
- xboxnolifes 6y ago
  Even being falsely accused is almost irrelevant here. Someone was killed in a police encounter over a bad check, falsely accused or not. It's not like a false accusations of murder or some aggregated assault. It's a case of a bad check.

wafn 6y ago

You'd think a bunch of educated folk would realize that if you can say anything at all, then you absolutely can breathe. Stop spreading this falsehood.