48 ms·

Could this bring reform to university administration, pay, tenure, and the general bloat that most universities have to carry?

jonahbenton 6y ago
No, because the admin is the "management" and it will squeeze everyone else- students, profs, staff- before itself. Hence eg schools ceasing contributions to faculty retirement plans, and no consequences for management creating a model that is so incredibly revenue sensitive.
- Balgair 6y ago
  "We're in this together" is Latin for "no tuition won't go down, my mortgage won't pay itself".
- ImaCake 6y ago
  > because the admin is the "management" and it will squeeze everyone else I participate in the research side of universities in various ways and this is exactly how it happens. The bureaucracy is absolutely the enemy when trying to get research done or preventing some arsehole in management from removing a useful service. I am currently trying to get hired as a research assistant (basically a vague title covering people who do research as part of a lab but without the ambitions of an academic) and lab heads will routinely try to source talent in a way that avoids the official university hiring policy. They do this because the official way is slow, stupid, and gets administration people involved who just get in the way. Not only that, they deal with plenty of university administration already, and they think it is mostly useless or needlessly complicated.
neel_k 6y ago
Most likely it will do the opposite. Losing a year of revenue will straight up kill a bunch of universities, just like it would kill most businesses. However, the following year there will still be the same number of 18 year olds who want to go to college as usual, and so surviving universities will grow much bigger. Bigger universities will grow bigger administrative arms, which will further isolate the leadership from students and academic and enable even more extractive policies, both because increased social distance makes cruelty more thinkable, and because the loss of competition makes it harder for students and academics to find an alternative. In other words, wiping out a bunch of businesses reduces competition, and less competitive markets are more monopolistic.
- goatinaboat 6y ago
  there will still be the same number of 18 year olds who want to go to college as usual That’s by no means certain at all. It’s plausible that many will realise that the degree isn’t as valuable as it once was and pursue a trade instead.
  - nerdponx 6y ago
    Or they pursue similar coursework without all the dressing.
  - nradov 6y ago
    It's not like we have a lot of empty slots in trade schools or apprenticeship programs either.
jldugger 6y ago
Well, considering I tripled my earnings by leaving a university job, I don't think they have much to 'save' on the pay dimension.
downerending 6y ago
If you think about it, tenure isn't really an obvious problem (since it only affects quality, which most don't care that much about). As for pay, at least at public schools, it's not very high. Administrative bloat? Some of it, like the diversity infrastructure, is mandated from without (regulations and/or legal concerns). Some, like vanity recycling programs, will indeed get whacked. In truth, though, the reforms that would really matter are (1) reduce college loan subsidies to a rational level, and (2) increase state funding of public universities.

jonahbenton 6y ago

No, because the admin is the "management" and it will squeeze everyone else- students, profs, staff- before itself. Hence eg schools ceasing contributions to faculty retirement plans, and no consequences for management creating a model that is so incredibly revenue sensitive.

Balgair 6y ago
"We're in this together" is Latin for "no tuition won't go down, my mortgage won't pay itself".
ImaCake 6y ago
> because the admin is the "management" and it will squeeze everyone else I participate in the research side of universities in various ways and this is exactly how it happens. The bureaucracy is absolutely the enemy when trying to get research done or preventing some arsehole in management from removing a useful service. I am currently trying to get hired as a research assistant (basically a vague title covering people who do research as part of a lab but without the ambitions of an academic) and lab heads will routinely try to source talent in a way that avoids the official university hiring policy. They do this because the official way is slow, stupid, and gets administration people involved who just get in the way. Not only that, they deal with plenty of university administration already, and they think it is mostly useless or needlessly complicated.

neel_k 6y ago

Most likely it will do the opposite. Losing a year of revenue will straight up kill a bunch of universities, just like it would kill most businesses. However, the following year there will still be the same number of 18 year olds who want to go to college as usual, and so surviving universities will grow much bigger. Bigger universities will grow bigger administrative arms, which will further isolate the leadership from students and academic and enable even more extractive policies, both because increased social distance makes cruelty more thinkable, and because the loss of competition makes it harder for students and academics to find an alternative. In other words, wiping out a bunch of businesses reduces competition, and less competitive markets are more monopolistic.

goatinaboat 6y ago
there will still be the same number of 18 year olds who want to go to college as usual That’s by no means certain at all. It’s plausible that many will realise that the degree isn’t as valuable as it once was and pursue a trade instead.
- nerdponx 6y ago
  Or they pursue similar coursework without all the dressing.
- nradov 6y ago
  It's not like we have a lot of empty slots in trade schools or apprenticeship programs either.

jldugger 6y ago

Well, considering I tripled my earnings by leaving a university job, I don't think they have much to 'save' on the pay dimension.

downerending 6y ago

If you think about it, tenure isn't really an obvious problem (since it only affects quality, which most don't care that much about). As for pay, at least at public schools, it's not very high. Administrative bloat? Some of it, like the diversity infrastructure, is mandated from without (regulations and/or legal concerns). Some, like vanity recycling programs, will indeed get whacked. In truth, though, the reforms that would really matter are (1) reduce college loan subsidies to a rational level, and (2) increase state funding of public universities.