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Why do a comparison? K8S runs on AWS and GCP. They have managed services for setting up one. If you know K8S as a developer, then you simply consume the cloud K

Why do a comparison? K8S runs on AWS and GCP. They have managed services for setting up one. If you know K8S as a developer, then you simply consume the cloud K8S cluster.

kelnos 6y ago
I think the point is that there are people that claim that k8s adds a ton of complexity to your environment. But if you compare k8s alone with managing your infrastructure using (non-k8s) AWS or GCP primitives, you'll find that the complexity is similar.
- verdverm 6y ago
  Exactly
- Phrodo_00 6y ago
  While that's true on the managing instances side, you also need to actually deploy the infrastructure to manage them (If you're not using some PaaS offering). You don't need to do this for other IaaS. Honestly the last time I looked at k8s was like 5 years ago, but back then it looked like a pretty big pita to admin.
  - verdverm 6y ago
    The last 5 years have been transformative for both cloud native development and also open source software It is a completely different world that stretches far beyond Kubernetes, though I attribute much of the change to what has happened from / around k8s -> cncf It's so easy, I can launch production level clusters is 15 minutes with four keystrokes and make backups and restore to new ephemeral clusters with a few more simple commands https://github.com/hofstadter-io/jumpfiles https://github.com/hofstadter-io/jumpfiles (I'll be pushing these updates this weekend, haven't slept in 24 hours as reworked everything to be powered by https://cuelang.org https://cuelang.org )
  - merb 6y ago
    > but back then it looked like a pretty big pita to admin - well it's also a pita to update services without a downtime. - and it sucks to update operating systems without a downtime. - sometimes you reinvent the wheel, when you add another service or even a new website however with k8s everything above is kinda the same, define a yaml file, apply it, it works. and also k8s itself can be managed via ansible/k3s/kops/gke/kubeadmin/etc... it's way easier to create a cluster and manage it.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Aeolun 6y ago
  The problem is that what the nodes in AWS are doing is fairly transparent. When my kubernetes pod does not come up, it’s always a hell of a pain figuring out why from just the events that kubernetes is giving me.
  - verdverm 6y ago
    Sounds like you need better logmon or more practice. Debugging apps is so much easier on k8s.
ForHackernews 6y ago
That's exactly the point. You avoid lock-in to AWS or GCP by running on K8S instead. K8S becomes the "operating system": a standardized abstraction over different hardware.
- verdverm 6y ago
  I argue this is a good thing, like the Linux kernel and the Chromium kernel
- pixelmonkey 6y ago
  Isn’t a “standardized abstraction over different hardware” just... an actual operating system? Isn’t “the operating system of the cloud” just... the actual operating system running on your cloud VMs? If you script a deployment environment atop vanilla Linux distros (e.g. ansible), you also avoid public cloud lock-in. (Side benefit: you also avoid container engine lock-in, and container layer complexity!) Containers are a standard abstraction over the operating system, not over the hardware (or the VM, even). This has its use cases, but making it “the standard” for deployment of all apps and workloads is just bananas, in my view.
  - verdverm 6y ago
    Kubernetes, when viewed as the OS for the data center, controls, manages, and allocates a pool of shared resources. When I install and run an application on my laptop, there are a ton of details I don't care about that just happen magically. Kubernetes maps this idea onto the resources and applications of the cloud. Again, Kubernetes is far more than just deploying, running, mad scaling an application. It allows so many problems to be solved at the system level, outside of an application and developers awareness. Take for example restricting base images at your organization. With Kubernetes, SecOps can install an application which scans all incoming jobs and either rejects them, or in more sophisticated setups, hot swaps the base image

Why do a comparison? K8S runs on AWS and GCP. They have managed services for setting up one. If you know K8S as a developer, then you simply consume the cloud K8S cluster.

kelnos 6y ago

I think the point is that there are people that claim that k8s adds a ton of complexity to your environment. But if you compare k8s alone with managing your infrastructure using (non-k8s) AWS or GCP primitives, you'll find that the complexity is similar.

verdverm 6y ago
Exactly
Phrodo_00 6y ago
While that's true on the managing instances side, you also need to actually deploy the infrastructure to manage them (If you're not using some PaaS offering). You don't need to do this for other IaaS. Honestly the last time I looked at k8s was like 5 years ago, but back then it looked like a pretty big pita to admin.
- verdverm 6y ago
  The last 5 years have been transformative for both cloud native development and also open source software It is a completely different world that stretches far beyond Kubernetes, though I attribute much of the change to what has happened from / around k8s -> cncf It's so easy, I can launch production level clusters is 15 minutes with four keystrokes and make backups and restore to new ephemeral clusters with a few more simple commands https://github.com/hofstadter-io/jumpfiles https://github.com/hofstadter-io/jumpfiles (I'll be pushing these updates this weekend, haven't slept in 24 hours as reworked everything to be powered by https://cuelang.org https://cuelang.org )
- merb 6y ago
  > but back then it looked like a pretty big pita to admin - well it's also a pita to update services without a downtime. - and it sucks to update operating systems without a downtime. - sometimes you reinvent the wheel, when you add another service or even a new website however with k8s everything above is kinda the same, define a yaml file, apply it, it works. and also k8s itself can be managed via ansible/k3s/kops/gke/kubeadmin/etc... it's way easier to create a cluster and manage it.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Aeolun 6y ago
The problem is that what the nodes in AWS are doing is fairly transparent. When my kubernetes pod does not come up, it’s always a hell of a pain figuring out why from just the events that kubernetes is giving me.
- verdverm 6y ago
  Sounds like you need better logmon or more practice. Debugging apps is so much easier on k8s.

ForHackernews 6y ago

That's exactly the point. You avoid lock-in to AWS or GCP by running on K8S instead. K8S becomes the "operating system": a standardized abstraction over different hardware.

verdverm 6y ago
I argue this is a good thing, like the Linux kernel and the Chromium kernel
pixelmonkey 6y ago
Isn’t a “standardized abstraction over different hardware” just... an actual operating system? Isn’t “the operating system of the cloud” just... the actual operating system running on your cloud VMs? If you script a deployment environment atop vanilla Linux distros (e.g. ansible), you also avoid public cloud lock-in. (Side benefit: you also avoid container engine lock-in, and container layer complexity!) Containers are a standard abstraction over the operating system, not over the hardware (or the VM, even). This has its use cases, but making it “the standard” for deployment of all apps and workloads is just bananas, in my view.
- verdverm 6y ago
  Kubernetes, when viewed as the OS for the data center, controls, manages, and allocates a pool of shared resources. When I install and run an application on my laptop, there are a ton of details I don't care about that just happen magically. Kubernetes maps this idea onto the resources and applications of the cloud. Again, Kubernetes is far more than just deploying, running, mad scaling an application. It allows so many problems to be solved at the system level, outside of an application and developers awareness. Take for example restricting base images at your organization. With Kubernetes, SecOps can install an application which scans all incoming jobs and either rejects them, or in more sophisticated setups, hot swaps the base image