8 ms·

As someone of mixed ethnicity who, if I was there could easily be victimized by a senseless mob to whom I owe nothing and have committed no crime against.. yea

As someone of mixed ethnicity who, if I was there could easily be victimized by a senseless mob to whom I owe nothing and have committed no crime against.. yea I am not happy with how the mainstream media promotes and covers this story, downplaying the victims of the chaos and sympathizing with outpourings of anger even if illegal. To clarify, looters should not be shot, law should prevail, and the policeman involved in the original incident should be investigated.. but the mainstream media is to my mind basically behind the looters, and I know if by chance I or someone like me were to be caught in the crossfire and killed, the mainstream media, posturing as champions of justice, would just implicitly shrug. So yea I can't help but feel disaffected by this coverage, no matter how vile the originating incident.

rayiner 6y ago
Relevant: https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/28/us/la-riots-korean-americans/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/28/us/la-riots-korean-americans/... > The Rodney King verdict and the ensuing riots are often framed as a turning point for law enforcement and the African-American community. But it's also the single most significant modern event for Korean-Americans, says Edward Taehan Chang, professor of ethnic studies and founding director of the Young Oak Kim Center for Korean American Studies at the University of California, Riverside. > The nearly weeklong, widespread rioting killed more than 50 people, injured more than 1,000 people and caused approximately $1 billion in damage, about half of which was sustained by Korean-owned businesses. Long-simmering cultural clashes between immigrant Korean business owners and predominately African-American customers spilled over with the acquittals. I'm on the side of the protesters here, don't get me wrong. But the media sweeps under the rug how often the rage from these events gets taken out on Indians, Pakistanis, Chinese, Koreans, Vietnamese, etc.-owned small businesses. There is a narrative the media wants to peddle (black versus white), and these complexities don't have any place in the media narratives.
- UncleMeat 6y ago
  A fair amount of this is caused by the state and police. Why do you think that the rioters were in koreatown during the rodney king riots? Police defended the rich neighborhoods and pushed the riot into places where society tolerates more damage.
  - chance_state 6y ago
    Did the police burn down and destroy $1B of property?
    - UncleMeat 6y ago
      No, of course not. But the reason why minority communities tend to be the victims of property damage during riots is the same as the reason for the riots in the first place.
      - chance_state 6y ago
        For a second there I thought we might blame the people who burned down buildings for burning down buildings. Thankfully you saved it with "but muh system". >Why do you think that the rioters were in koreatown during the rodney king riots? Because there's incredible racist animosity against Asian people in the black community. Some people (you) are currently pretending this isn't the case, and that it was just a crazy coincidence that blacks targeted Korean businesses during the LA riots, resulting in _half_ the monetary damages of the whole event.
      - rayiner 6y ago
        > No, of course not. But the reason why minority communities tend to be the victims of property damage during riots is the same as the reason for the riots in the first place. I disagree, and I think that's a pernicious viewpoint. Americans tend to downplay the real antagonism and differently-aligned incentives that exists between different minority groups, in an effort to paint things as a matter of "whites versus everyone else." But, for example, Asians are treated very favorably by the police. (The incarceration rate for asian Americans is something like 1/6 of the rate for white Americans.) Saying that the problems they face are the same as those faced by other minority groups is erasing their individual experiences.
- js2 6y ago
  > these complexities don't have any place in the media narratives I'm reminded of the film "Do the Right Thing", by Spike Lee. 1989. Not much has changed in America.
fzeroracer 6y ago
This entire event is effectively self-defense from a community that has felt terrorized by the police for decades. It could've been easily prevented by actually arresting someone that committed abject murder, but the city and the police chose to instead defend a man who has killed multiple people in the past and got away with it scott-free. So when people feel like justice no longer exists, there should be no surprise that they get angry. It doesn't help that the police also employ agent provocateurs whom help incite riots and looting so that they can use more violent tactics with glee.
- claudeganon 6y ago
  Yes, one only need to compare the police treatment of predominantly white, armed brigades storming government buildings in Michigan to what happened to the first wave of predominantly black, non-violent protests in Minneapolis to understand there are other forces at play here.
  - FireBeyond 6y ago
    Or Oregon, where they took over a government facility, barricaded themselves in there, started armed patrols, fortifying and securing themselves in there... ... and were left alone for weeks, or more. Given some slaps on the wrist. And the tax payer footed the bill for the cleanup.
- kenward 6y ago
  > So when people feel like justice no longer exists, there should be no surprise that they get angry. I think this is the key here. The whole BLM movement has been going on for years and, for the most part, it seems like a lot of people are more aware. It doesn't seem like anybody from the top cares to do anything about it though.
- andrewclunn 6y ago
  Not even close, but keep telling yourself whatevwr you need to to justify violent riots and indiscriminate looting. Never seen an HD TV looted in self defense before, but hey the media owned by God's Chosen People trying to use blacks as violent foot soldiers for marxism is just a conspiracy pushed by bigots and idiots, right?
miguelmota 6y ago
It could have all been ended before the rioting started if the police officer was charged for his actions. Obviously looting is wrong but peaceful protests obviously aren't working either.
- eloff 6y ago
  They were fired and will face the justice system, which while it normally moves slowly, will move a little faster in this case thanks to top down pressure. I don't see how in a country with independent judiciary anything more can be done.
  - troyvit 6y ago
    How fast would the justice system have moved if it was a black person killing a cop as opposed to a cop killing a black person?
    - techntoke 6y ago
      Conservatives are too busy playing victim on social media to be worried about how African Americans are unfairly targeted and killed by police. They're mad that the President isn't allowed to encourage it.
  - UncleMeat 6y ago
    How are you so sure? They were already evading justice before the video came out (the internal police analysis was obviously false). Pantaleo was never charged for Garner's death. In other cases we have seen video evidence excluded from trial and officers walk. I'm not remotely confident that this will lead to convictions.
  - joshuamorton 6y ago
    > They were fired and will face the justice system If I shot someone on video[0], I would be charged with a crime, likely homicide, that day and in jail until a bail hearing. At which point I might have the option to leave jail until my trial. In this case the officer was arrested 3 days later (about an hour ago at time of writing), and only due to pressure from both citizens and politicians. Without that, it may have taken longer to charge him, or he may not have been charged at all, just like the other multiple times this officer killed someone. That's a double standard. The police should serve the people, not be above them or immune to oversight. [0]: A white person, if I shot a black person, the DA's office might try to cover it up and I'd only get arrested a month later after protests: https://www.nytimes.com/article/ahmaud-arbery-shooting-georgia.html https://www.nytimes.com/article/ahmaud-arbery-shooting-georg...
claudeganon 6y ago
Sure, but ideally the function of the state is prevent the formation of senseless mobs through even-handed treatment and a well-functioning justice system. When it fails to meet those expectations, people turn to other means to defend themselves and enact retribution. This is human nature and the entire story of our history. Aeschylus even wrote about it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oresteia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oresteia
- ixtli 6y ago
  I think there is an issue where a minority of people live very sheltered lives in the kind embrace of the state, so they have a very difficult time accepting that actually, the experience is shit for a wide swath of other people who have the same right to be protected.
baby 6y ago
You are enabling a fascist government. You are complicit. This is the strategy to vilify any movements from the people: focus on how they are acting violent, when this violence is very well in proportion to the enemy’s first move.
- misja111 6y ago
  How is looting innocent shop owners in proportion to the wrongdoings of the police force? And if this 'an eye for an eye' philosophy is what you are promoting, how is Trump's tweet then out of place?
  - anigbrowl 6y ago
    How was the looting of innocent tea merchants in proportion to the wrongdoings of George III's soldiers? Stop equating property with life. They're not the same. They're not even close.
  - LordDragonfang 6y ago
    Property damage < loss of human life I know this may be a difficult thing to accept for some people on this site, since it is at its core a tech investment site, but no amount of financial damage would be "proportional" to systemic excusal of murder.
    - jaydenseric 6y ago
      You are naive to think mass riots, looting and arson won’t lead to deaths. Someone with respect for human life wouldn't set fire to a building or repeatedly punch a disabled lady in a wheelchair in the back of the head and take her purse. Already at least 7 people have been shot. 63 people died in the 1992 LA riots.
      - baby 6y ago
        And you are naive to think that not standing up against fascism works (cf. world war II)
seaknoll 6y ago
This movement is about centuries of unjustness. To me, it is appropriate that the occasional bystander and business is overlooked. That doesn't mean that if you were my sibling, or friend, or business that I wouldn't be entitled to express personal pain. But the magnitude of my pain is nothing next to the pain that's led up to this, and no it wouldn't be appropriate for it to get remotely equal attention. Sure, ideally bystanders and local businesses (in particular) would be spared. But nothing about the historical events leading to now is ideal.
- Thinkx220 6y ago
  Unfortunately, both you, the media, and the looters keep forgetting the events are, as you said, history.
  - augustt 6y ago
    It's history and it's the present. You sound like the people who claim racism must be over since Obama was elected.
    - meragrin_ 6y ago
      What about this event indicates racism was involved? Because the cop is not behind bars? That is most likely due to union rules and procedures which have to be followed.
  - ardy42 6y ago
    > Unfortunately, both you, the media, and the looters keep forgetting the events are, as you said, history. But history can be important. Literally everything that's known and has been done is now history, including recently committed crimes. The history that we're talking about still has clearly identifiable painful consequences in present-day communities, so it's not something that can just be filed away and ignored as no longer relevant.
  - cde-v 6y ago
    Until it happens again, and again, and again, and again....
anigbrowl 6y ago
the policeman involved in the original incident should be investigated Oh give it a rest. We saw him kill the man, he can sit a cell and prepare for his trial like any other killer. If you don't like what people int he media say find different commentators or stop listening to pundits altogether. I am sick to the back teeth of people complaining about 'the mainstream media', when Fox News and Sinclair broadcasting are two of the biggest companies in TV.
- barnesto 6y ago
  The investigation lead to an arrest today. That's how the system works. And it worked in this case. Where was your rage for Justine Damond? Shot by Officer Mohamed Noor from the passenger seat of his police cruiser, across his partner. Where were the riots? Also, when people complain about MSM they are including Fox and Sinclair. It's all corrupted and meant to drive a narrative instead of presenting objective views from both sides. It's not up to MSM to tell us how to think about events. Their job is to report the facts. Hardly any of them do anymore, if they ever did.
  - therealdrag0 6y ago
    First time hearing about Justine Damond.. But black officer goes to jail and white family gets 20 MILLION dollars... Maybe it's media bias but in a sick way that seems to underline bias in the system.
  - anigbrowl 6y ago
    It's amazing to me how the system can send 4 cops to take someone into custody immediately over an alleged passing of a fake $20 bill, but when there's video of a homicide taking place despite the pleas of the victim and the intervention of bystanders, and more video shows that the initial report submitted by the cops in question was a lie, everything has to slow right down while we wring our hands over the rights of the cops. Also, when people complain about MSM they are including Fox and Sinclair. Please don't insult my intelligence again.
- godelski 6y ago
  > Oh give it a rest. We saw him kill the man, he can sit a cell and prepare for his trial like any other killer. He can sit in a cell while being investigated. The fact that it is all on camera just makes it a quick investigation. But everyone gets due process. (also EVERYONE there needs to be investigated, not just the killer)
hadtodoit 6y ago
>looters should not be shot, law should prevail That is literally the law of the land. Read into castle doctrine and duty to retreat. Business owners have the legal right to defend their life on their property with deadly force if left no choice (i.e. a mob has surrounded you) At any rate his tweet was ambiguous, he could have meant shooting naturally follows looting, not that he was ordering the guard to execute civilians.
bosswipe 6y ago
> if I was there could easily be victimized by a senseless mob Your comment is what is senseless fear. Protesters are not attacking random people, no matter what your ethnicity.

rayiner 6y ago

Relevant: https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/28/us/la-riots-korean-americans/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/28/us/la-riots-korean-americans/... > The Rodney King verdict and the ensuing riots are often framed as a turning point for law enforcement and the African-American community. But it's also the single most significant modern event for Korean-Americans, says Edward Taehan Chang, professor of ethnic studies and founding director of the Young Oak Kim Center for Korean American Studies at the University of California, Riverside. > The nearly weeklong, widespread rioting killed more than 50 people, injured more than 1,000 people and caused approximately $1 billion in damage, about half of which was sustained by Korean-owned businesses. Long-simmering cultural clashes between immigrant Korean business owners and predominately African-American customers spilled over with the acquittals. I'm on the side of the protesters here, don't get me wrong. But the media sweeps under the rug how often the rage from these events gets taken out on Indians, Pakistanis, Chinese, Koreans, Vietnamese, etc.-owned small businesses. There is a narrative the media wants to peddle (black versus white), and these complexities don't have any place in the media narratives.

UncleMeat 6y ago
A fair amount of this is caused by the state and police. Why do you think that the rioters were in koreatown during the rodney king riots? Police defended the rich neighborhoods and pushed the riot into places where society tolerates more damage.
- chance_state 6y ago
  Did the police burn down and destroy $1B of property?
  - UncleMeat 6y ago
    No, of course not. But the reason why minority communities tend to be the victims of property damage during riots is the same as the reason for the riots in the first place.
    - chance_state 6y ago
      For a second there I thought we might blame the people who burned down buildings for burning down buildings. Thankfully you saved it with "but muh system". >Why do you think that the rioters were in koreatown during the rodney king riots? Because there's incredible racist animosity against Asian people in the black community. Some people (you) are currently pretending this isn't the case, and that it was just a crazy coincidence that blacks targeted Korean businesses during the LA riots, resulting in _half_ the monetary damages of the whole event.
    - rayiner 6y ago
      > No, of course not. But the reason why minority communities tend to be the victims of property damage during riots is the same as the reason for the riots in the first place. I disagree, and I think that's a pernicious viewpoint. Americans tend to downplay the real antagonism and differently-aligned incentives that exists between different minority groups, in an effort to paint things as a matter of "whites versus everyone else." But, for example, Asians are treated very favorably by the police. (The incarceration rate for asian Americans is something like 1/6 of the rate for white Americans.) Saying that the problems they face are the same as those faced by other minority groups is erasing their individual experiences.
js2 6y ago
> these complexities don't have any place in the media narratives I'm reminded of the film "Do the Right Thing", by Spike Lee. 1989. Not much has changed in America.

fzeroracer 6y ago

This entire event is effectively self-defense from a community that has felt terrorized by the police for decades. It could've been easily prevented by actually arresting someone that committed abject murder, but the city and the police chose to instead defend a man who has killed multiple people in the past and got away with it scott-free. So when people feel like justice no longer exists, there should be no surprise that they get angry. It doesn't help that the police also employ agent provocateurs whom help incite riots and looting so that they can use more violent tactics with glee.

claudeganon 6y ago
Yes, one only need to compare the police treatment of predominantly white, armed brigades storming government buildings in Michigan to what happened to the first wave of predominantly black, non-violent protests in Minneapolis to understand there are other forces at play here.
- FireBeyond 6y ago
  Or Oregon, where they took over a government facility, barricaded themselves in there, started armed patrols, fortifying and securing themselves in there... ... and were left alone for weeks, or more. Given some slaps on the wrist. And the tax payer footed the bill for the cleanup.
kenward 6y ago
> So when people feel like justice no longer exists, there should be no surprise that they get angry. I think this is the key here. The whole BLM movement has been going on for years and, for the most part, it seems like a lot of people are more aware. It doesn't seem like anybody from the top cares to do anything about it though.
andrewclunn 6y ago
Not even close, but keep telling yourself whatevwr you need to to justify violent riots and indiscriminate looting. Never seen an HD TV looted in self defense before, but hey the media owned by God's Chosen People trying to use blacks as violent foot soldiers for marxism is just a conspiracy pushed by bigots and idiots, right?

miguelmota 6y ago

It could have all been ended before the rioting started if the police officer was charged for his actions. Obviously looting is wrong but peaceful protests obviously aren't working either.

eloff 6y ago
They were fired and will face the justice system, which while it normally moves slowly, will move a little faster in this case thanks to top down pressure. I don't see how in a country with independent judiciary anything more can be done.
- troyvit 6y ago
  How fast would the justice system have moved if it was a black person killing a cop as opposed to a cop killing a black person?
  - techntoke 6y ago
    Conservatives are too busy playing victim on social media to be worried about how African Americans are unfairly targeted and killed by police. They're mad that the President isn't allowed to encourage it.
- UncleMeat 6y ago
  How are you so sure? They were already evading justice before the video came out (the internal police analysis was obviously false). Pantaleo was never charged for Garner's death. In other cases we have seen video evidence excluded from trial and officers walk. I'm not remotely confident that this will lead to convictions.
- joshuamorton 6y ago
  > They were fired and will face the justice system If I shot someone on video[0], I would be charged with a crime, likely homicide, that day and in jail until a bail hearing. At which point I might have the option to leave jail until my trial. In this case the officer was arrested 3 days later (about an hour ago at time of writing), and only due to pressure from both citizens and politicians. Without that, it may have taken longer to charge him, or he may not have been charged at all, just like the other multiple times this officer killed someone. That's a double standard. The police should serve the people, not be above them or immune to oversight. [0]: A white person, if I shot a black person, the DA's office might try to cover it up and I'd only get arrested a month later after protests: https://www.nytimes.com/article/ahmaud-arbery-shooting-georgia.html https://www.nytimes.com/article/ahmaud-arbery-shooting-georg...

claudeganon 6y ago

Sure, but ideally the function of the state is prevent the formation of senseless mobs through even-handed treatment and a well-functioning justice system. When it fails to meet those expectations, people turn to other means to defend themselves and enact retribution. This is human nature and the entire story of our history. Aeschylus even wrote about it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oresteia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oresteia

ixtli 6y ago
I think there is an issue where a minority of people live very sheltered lives in the kind embrace of the state, so they have a very difficult time accepting that actually, the experience is shit for a wide swath of other people who have the same right to be protected.

baby 6y ago

You are enabling a fascist government. You are complicit. This is the strategy to vilify any movements from the people: focus on how they are acting violent, when this violence is very well in proportion to the enemy’s first move.

misja111 6y ago
How is looting innocent shop owners in proportion to the wrongdoings of the police force? And if this 'an eye for an eye' philosophy is what you are promoting, how is Trump's tweet then out of place?
- anigbrowl 6y ago
  How was the looting of innocent tea merchants in proportion to the wrongdoings of George III's soldiers? Stop equating property with life. They're not the same. They're not even close.
- LordDragonfang 6y ago
  Property damage < loss of human life I know this may be a difficult thing to accept for some people on this site, since it is at its core a tech investment site, but no amount of financial damage would be "proportional" to systemic excusal of murder.
  - jaydenseric 6y ago
    You are naive to think mass riots, looting and arson won’t lead to deaths. Someone with respect for human life wouldn't set fire to a building or repeatedly punch a disabled lady in a wheelchair in the back of the head and take her purse. Already at least 7 people have been shot. 63 people died in the 1992 LA riots.
    - baby 6y ago
      And you are naive to think that not standing up against fascism works (cf. world war II)

seaknoll 6y ago

This movement is about centuries of unjustness. To me, it is appropriate that the occasional bystander and business is overlooked. That doesn't mean that if you were my sibling, or friend, or business that I wouldn't be entitled to express personal pain. But the magnitude of my pain is nothing next to the pain that's led up to this, and no it wouldn't be appropriate for it to get remotely equal attention. Sure, ideally bystanders and local businesses (in particular) would be spared. But nothing about the historical events leading to now is ideal.

Thinkx220 6y ago
Unfortunately, both you, the media, and the looters keep forgetting the events are, as you said, history.
- augustt 6y ago
  It's history and it's the present. You sound like the people who claim racism must be over since Obama was elected.
  - meragrin_ 6y ago
    What about this event indicates racism was involved? Because the cop is not behind bars? That is most likely due to union rules and procedures which have to be followed.
- ardy42 6y ago
  > Unfortunately, both you, the media, and the looters keep forgetting the events are, as you said, history. But history can be important. Literally everything that's known and has been done is now history, including recently committed crimes. The history that we're talking about still has clearly identifiable painful consequences in present-day communities, so it's not something that can just be filed away and ignored as no longer relevant.
- cde-v 6y ago
  Until it happens again, and again, and again, and again....

anigbrowl 6y ago

the policeman involved in the original incident should be investigated Oh give it a rest. We saw him kill the man, he can sit a cell and prepare for his trial like any other killer. If you don't like what people int he media say find different commentators or stop listening to pundits altogether. I am sick to the back teeth of people complaining about 'the mainstream media', when Fox News and Sinclair broadcasting are two of the biggest companies in TV.

barnesto 6y ago
The investigation lead to an arrest today. That's how the system works. And it worked in this case. Where was your rage for Justine Damond? Shot by Officer Mohamed Noor from the passenger seat of his police cruiser, across his partner. Where were the riots? Also, when people complain about MSM they are including Fox and Sinclair. It's all corrupted and meant to drive a narrative instead of presenting objective views from both sides. It's not up to MSM to tell us how to think about events. Their job is to report the facts. Hardly any of them do anymore, if they ever did.
- therealdrag0 6y ago
  First time hearing about Justine Damond.. But black officer goes to jail and white family gets 20 MILLION dollars... Maybe it's media bias but in a sick way that seems to underline bias in the system.
- anigbrowl 6y ago
  It's amazing to me how the system can send 4 cops to take someone into custody immediately over an alleged passing of a fake $20 bill, but when there's video of a homicide taking place despite the pleas of the victim and the intervention of bystanders, and more video shows that the initial report submitted by the cops in question was a lie, everything has to slow right down while we wring our hands over the rights of the cops. Also, when people complain about MSM they are including Fox and Sinclair. Please don't insult my intelligence again.
godelski 6y ago
> Oh give it a rest. We saw him kill the man, he can sit a cell and prepare for his trial like any other killer. He can sit in a cell while being investigated. The fact that it is all on camera just makes it a quick investigation. But everyone gets due process. (also EVERYONE there needs to be investigated, not just the killer)

hadtodoit 6y ago

>looters should not be shot, law should prevail That is literally the law of the land. Read into castle doctrine and duty to retreat. Business owners have the legal right to defend their life on their property with deadly force if left no choice (i.e. a mob has surrounded you) At any rate his tweet was ambiguous, he could have meant shooting naturally follows looting, not that he was ordering the guard to execute civilians.

bosswipe 6y ago

> if I was there could easily be victimized by a senseless mob Your comment is what is senseless fear. Protesters are not attacking random people, no matter what your ethnicity.