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The counterpoint to your argument is that if it is so easy to create those types of communities for much less money than what universities are charging, why has

by jawns 6y ago

The counterpoint to your argument is that if it is so easy to create those types of communities for much less money than what universities are charging, why hasn't it happened? I would guess that it's a combination of 1. not being as easy as it seems and 2. network effects. Because of the latter, you would basically have to persuade a large number of students to make the switch at the same time for them to feel as if they still have the social/professional networking they get from the on-campus experience.

jerf 6y ago
"why hasn't it happened?" Who says it hasn't? To some extent, it has. Interest groups and clubs of all sorts already exist, and non-university-affiliated sports are already pervasive. But the rest of the answer is why I was talking about "what would exist if the universities didn't". Right now, the unis are sucking up a lot of the oxygen in that space. But it's a mistake to think that if they stop doing it, it will all disappear. It may partially disappear, but it will most assuredly not all disappear. There will be places where young people congregate. There will be roommates. There will be interests that emerge and get organized. Existing sports leagues can expand. If the demand exists, supply will appear. It doesn't even have to start from scratch, there's plenty of non-University resources that could simply expand to meet the demand. And the resulting system probably won't put you into decades of crippling debt. For that matter, have a chat with some of your school acquaintances that didn't go to university. You may find their lives aren't as horribly impoverished as you thought. There's also a bit of a false mental image that the choice is either the shining lawn and conspicuously happy people in the university or the darkness where lightning flashes and a grim factory job from which there is no respite, and in reality the choices are not even remotely that stark. In both cases, a lot of it is what you make of it. And, you know, you'd best hope universities aren't some sort of unique fount of such activities and joys, because you will be joining the rest of us in the non-university world after graduation, you know. It isn't actually that horrid or bereft of opportunities.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
coryrc 6y ago
It's illegal to create living communities for young people. You are allowed to discriminate against people younger than 55, but not against any other age criteria. It's another example in the unending list of losses in this generational war.
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
  What does this mean, and can you provide examples? What do you mean by young people? I thought intentional communities were a thing in many / most developed democracies?
  - coryrc 6y ago
    https://www.55places.com/blog/yes-age-restricted-communities-are-legal https://www.55places.com/blog/yes-age-restricted-communities... I left young people open on purpose. I could not create a housing community and only rent to people under 23 (which is mostly what undergraduate University is), but I could if I only allowed people over 55. You are allowed to rent or buy things as a group, but the transactional costs make it rare.
    - TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
      Oh, yes, I see now what you mean. Yeah, I sort of strongly disagree with this sort of legislation but also understand why it exists. I think society would benefit from being more dynamic in this regard. Tricky though.
- Avicebron 6y ago
  Genuine question, is it illegal if the people are older than 18? Possibly with resident adults acting in some supervisory role. I'm imagining dorm like satellite communities for collective remote online learning.
  - coryrc 6y ago
    I would doubt requiring the individuals be able to agree to contracts would be illegal, this effectively would be 18+. But you won't get young women joining if you also have to allow 55-yr-old male leches live next door. In University this is rare, but SROs can't discriminate in the same way.
IG_Semmelweiss 6y ago
It hasnt happened because in order to pay for such a services, it must be amortized off 30 years in the form of a subsidized loan by the govt. Take that off the table, and watch those options happen
lumost 6y ago
Social acceptability is a big reason. Historically there were many socially acceptable ways to spend your late teenage years and early 20s including - The Frontier - Artistic Cities such as Paris/Venice - Apprenticeships in factories and major industrial centers. - University The rise of the middle class also coincided with a consolidation into the University as being the only socially acceptable path. In practice one could probably lose money slower, have new social experiences, and learn more about art/culture spending a year in Brooklyn rather than spending 50k at a liberal arts college. Even in the realm of software development jumping straight to incubators, bootcamps and similar entry-level opportunities may provide better out of class learning opportunities than some university programs for the money and time.

by jawns 6y ago

jerf 6y ago

"why hasn't it happened?" Who says it hasn't? To some extent, it has. Interest groups and clubs of all sorts already exist, and non-university-affiliated sports are already pervasive. But the rest of the answer is why I was talking about "what would exist if the universities didn't". Right now, the unis are sucking up a lot of the oxygen in that space. But it's a mistake to think that if they stop doing it, it will all disappear. It may partially disappear, but it will most assuredly not all disappear. There will be places where young people congregate. There will be roommates. There will be interests that emerge and get organized. Existing sports leagues can expand. If the demand exists, supply will appear. It doesn't even have to start from scratch, there's plenty of non-University resources that could simply expand to meet the demand. And the resulting system probably won't put you into decades of crippling debt. For that matter, have a chat with some of your school acquaintances that didn't go to university. You may find their lives aren't as horribly impoverished as you thought. There's also a bit of a false mental image that the choice is either the shining lawn and conspicuously happy people in the university or the darkness where lightning flashes and a grim factory job from which there is no respite, and in reality the choices are not even remotely that stark. In both cases, a lot of it is what you make of it. And, you know, you'd best hope universities aren't some sort of unique fount of such activities and joys, because you will be joining the rest of us in the non-university world after graduation, you know. It isn't actually that horrid or bereft of opportunities.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

coryrc 6y ago

It's illegal to create living communities for young people. You are allowed to discriminate against people younger than 55, but not against any other age criteria. It's another example in the unending list of losses in this generational war.

TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
What does this mean, and can you provide examples? What do you mean by young people? I thought intentional communities were a thing in many / most developed democracies?
- coryrc 6y ago
  https://www.55places.com/blog/yes-age-restricted-communities-are-legal https://www.55places.com/blog/yes-age-restricted-communities... I left young people open on purpose. I could not create a housing community and only rent to people under 23 (which is mostly what undergraduate University is), but I could if I only allowed people over 55. You are allowed to rent or buy things as a group, but the transactional costs make it rare.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
    Oh, yes, I see now what you mean. Yeah, I sort of strongly disagree with this sort of legislation but also understand why it exists. I think society would benefit from being more dynamic in this regard. Tricky though.
Avicebron 6y ago
Genuine question, is it illegal if the people are older than 18? Possibly with resident adults acting in some supervisory role. I'm imagining dorm like satellite communities for collective remote online learning.
- coryrc 6y ago
  I would doubt requiring the individuals be able to agree to contracts would be illegal, this effectively would be 18+. But you won't get young women joining if you also have to allow 55-yr-old male leches live next door. In University this is rare, but SROs can't discriminate in the same way.

IG_Semmelweiss 6y ago

It hasnt happened because in order to pay for such a services, it must be amortized off 30 years in the form of a subsidized loan by the govt. Take that off the table, and watch those options happen

lumost 6y ago

Social acceptability is a big reason. Historically there were many socially acceptable ways to spend your late teenage years and early 20s including - The Frontier - Artistic Cities such as Paris/Venice - Apprenticeships in factories and major industrial centers. - University The rise of the middle class also coincided with a consolidation into the University as being the only socially acceptable path. In practice one could probably lose money slower, have new social experiences, and learn more about art/culture spending a year in Brooklyn rather than spending 50k at a liberal arts college. Even in the realm of software development jumping straight to incubators, bootcamps and similar entry-level opportunities may provide better out of class learning opportunities than some university programs for the money and time.