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There are lots of petty crimes on Wall Street too. Check out downtown Manhattan on a Friday night and you'll find plenty of people with illegal drugs...yet...th

There are lots of petty crimes on Wall Street too. Check out downtown Manhattan on a Friday night and you'll find plenty of people with illegal drugs...yet...the broken windows theory seems to focus only on select [poor] neighborhoods.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
And that's a bad thing, but I'm sure you'd agree the right solution isn't for the police to permit lots of crime in poor neighborhoods.
- LeifCarrotson 6y ago
  Permitting petty crime would be a better solution than many alternatives. One such worse solution would be, for example, proactive, racially and economically discriminatory policing, ruining fragile, impoverished, limited-opportunity lives and breeding distrust, while simultaneously ignoring white-collar crime in rich neighborhoods.
- JackRabbitSlim 6y ago
  So inversely, it is the right solution for police to permit lots of crime in well-off areas. “The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.”
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    Poor people are certainly exposed to bad policing more often, but I don't think they see the entire concept of law enforcement as unequal. Most people across all income groups don't commit or approve of crimes.
- bikezen 6y ago
  "Permitting crime" and not hassling everyone who looks a certain way or is in a certain area are two VERY different things. People are harassed and delayed for no reason just because of the way they look or where they are coming/going from, even if its their neighborhood. They're also ticketed for minor offenses due to those same "reasons" meanwhile people elsewhere are not having those same offenses punished. You will find plenty of stories from people who lives in neighborhoods where this was applied where you literally have to allow extra time to come and go from your own home because its likely you will be stopped and questioned just going about your daily lives. That would not fly in more affluent communities. "Proactive Policing" allows implicit and other biases of the police force to be acted on directly because there needs to be no crime to stop someone, its entirely on the polices judgement on who to stop and why.
- MiroF 6y ago
  Monthly reminder that more total money is stolen in the form of wage theft from poor workers than is robbed in any form. [0] [0]: https://www.epi.org/publication/wage-theft-bigger-problem-forms-theft-workers/ https://www.epi.org/publication/wage-theft-bigger-problem-fo...
- danenania 6y ago
  It comes down to judgment. It's the difference between a cop writing a ticket to someone who's going 5 mph over the speed limit but driving safely and someone who's going 30 mph over while weaving in and out of traffic. While both are technically illegal, one is low risk and socially accepted behavior, while the other presents a real threat to many people's safety. When police seek out and punish the first kind of behavior, people see it as predatory. When it's the second, most people are thankful. In many poor communities, police seem to have their priorities exactly backwards: they zealously seek out and punish petty victimless crimes, while not investigating serious crimes due to a lack of resources.
  - MiroF 6y ago
    Great analogy to relate towards policing that everyone is familiar with.
- TuringNYC 6y ago
  >> And that's a bad thing, but I'm sure you'd agree the right solution isn't for the police to permit lots of crime in poor neighborhoods. I'm not sure if your comment was satire or not. But if it isnt satire -- it is exactly why so many people are so angry. The privileged attitude is best summarized as: yes, i'm doing something criminal, but so is that PoC, lets go after the PoC [while ignoring my crimes]. This is injustice because true justice is blind, not a tool for selective oppression.
dantheman 6y ago
Two points: 1. Broken windows is bad policing strategy. 2. The 'crimes' in downtown manhattan shouldn't be crimes, victimless crime isn't a crime.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

And that's a bad thing, but I'm sure you'd agree the right solution isn't for the police to permit lots of crime in poor neighborhoods.

LeifCarrotson 6y ago
Permitting petty crime would be a better solution than many alternatives. One such worse solution would be, for example, proactive, racially and economically discriminatory policing, ruining fragile, impoverished, limited-opportunity lives and breeding distrust, while simultaneously ignoring white-collar crime in rich neighborhoods.
JackRabbitSlim 6y ago
So inversely, it is the right solution for police to permit lots of crime in well-off areas. “The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.”
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  Poor people are certainly exposed to bad policing more often, but I don't think they see the entire concept of law enforcement as unequal. Most people across all income groups don't commit or approve of crimes.
bikezen 6y ago
"Permitting crime" and not hassling everyone who looks a certain way or is in a certain area are two VERY different things. People are harassed and delayed for no reason just because of the way they look or where they are coming/going from, even if its their neighborhood. They're also ticketed for minor offenses due to those same "reasons" meanwhile people elsewhere are not having those same offenses punished. You will find plenty of stories from people who lives in neighborhoods where this was applied where you literally have to allow extra time to come and go from your own home because its likely you will be stopped and questioned just going about your daily lives. That would not fly in more affluent communities. "Proactive Policing" allows implicit and other biases of the police force to be acted on directly because there needs to be no crime to stop someone, its entirely on the polices judgement on who to stop and why.
MiroF 6y ago
Monthly reminder that more total money is stolen in the form of wage theft from poor workers than is robbed in any form. [0] [0]: https://www.epi.org/publication/wage-theft-bigger-problem-forms-theft-workers/ https://www.epi.org/publication/wage-theft-bigger-problem-fo...
danenania 6y ago
It comes down to judgment. It's the difference between a cop writing a ticket to someone who's going 5 mph over the speed limit but driving safely and someone who's going 30 mph over while weaving in and out of traffic. While both are technically illegal, one is low risk and socially accepted behavior, while the other presents a real threat to many people's safety. When police seek out and punish the first kind of behavior, people see it as predatory. When it's the second, most people are thankful. In many poor communities, police seem to have their priorities exactly backwards: they zealously seek out and punish petty victimless crimes, while not investigating serious crimes due to a lack of resources.
- MiroF 6y ago
  Great analogy to relate towards policing that everyone is familiar with.
TuringNYC 6y ago
>> And that's a bad thing, but I'm sure you'd agree the right solution isn't for the police to permit lots of crime in poor neighborhoods. I'm not sure if your comment was satire or not. But if it isnt satire -- it is exactly why so many people are so angry. The privileged attitude is best summarized as: yes, i'm doing something criminal, but so is that PoC, lets go after the PoC [while ignoring my crimes]. This is injustice because true justice is blind, not a tool for selective oppression.

dantheman 6y ago

Two points: 1. Broken windows is bad policing strategy. 2. The 'crimes' in downtown manhattan shouldn't be crimes, victimless crime isn't a crime.