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MicroProse Returns with the Mighty Eighth, a 10-Player WWII B-17 Simulator
- esemor 6y agoWhen will we get a Tie-Fighter Remake for any VR headset. Battlefront VR experience showed the viability. I'd fork out 1000€ plus for that game.
- rspicer 6y agoI'm not sure how TIE Fighter's mechanics would translate to modern sensibilities, and I say this as someone who loved the LucasArts games (at least part of the reason I'm a graphics programmer today!) and currently has, well, a not-insubstantial investment in flight simulation hardware for modern titles like DCS/Falcon BMS/various IL-2 things. House of the Dying Sun (https://store.steampowered.com/app/283160/House_of_the_Dying_Sun/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/283160/House_of_the_Dying...) might be the closest thing going I'm aware of on the current market, as an arcade space fighter game in VR. Doesn't have the same theming, but it's at least space fighters doing space fighter things in space! For me, the question of how you'd do a modern TIE Fighter remake becomes "how do you make assumptions about how space combat works in your game-universe that line up with the Star Wars films, and also lead to fun gameplay?" Since the space combat from Star Wars (at least ANH) was basically "Dambusters, in space!" you can draw lots of inspiration from World War 2-era aviation and combat. However, given an environment where gravity doesn't play and everything has ridiculous thrust-to-mass ratios, you lose some of the interesting bits re: altitude/energy trades and everything just turns into a "Pull as hard as you can" circle fight in the within-visual-range (WVR) / basic fighter maneuvers (BFM) space, which is where most of the iconic Star Wars dogfights-in-space happen. Beyond Visual Range (BVR) combat isn't really a thing in Star Wars, because Rule of Cool indicates that dogfights are cooler than slinging missiles at each other based on sensors. In the films, the writers/VFX people created the scenes they wanted by creative fiat -- in a game you need the mechanics to drive to the experience you want, and that's a challenge given Star Wars' apparent assumptions about how space combat works. Of course there's all sorts of interesting assumptions you could make instead, but then you're just making a space arcade-sim game, not a Star Wars game. Nope, I've clearly never thought about this. At all. Clearly.
- duxup 6y agoI wonder the same. It seems like space sim combat ... almost is too weird, or twitchy or something or other to actually enjoy. At least I've found the more sim like it gets when it comes to sort of dog fighting combat the more it just gets immediately disorienting / feels to the user very random. It's a strange thing.
- meheleventyone 6y agoHaving different energy retention and ‘flight envelope’ would at least let you make distinguishable ships to fly around. Couple that with the ship power management, stuff like shielding and so on could end up plenty complicated. X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter and Allegiance are two games that did movie space combat really well. I’d love a more detailed model in a version of either of those games.
- rspicer 6y agoAllegiance! Now there's a name I haven't read in a long time. tried to get into that community around the time the first Free Allegiance release happened, but I didn't end up with the right combination of personality and time to get really involved, and even though I think the gameplay might be more my jam today, I think the community has largely dried up, and I don't have nearly the time I used to for gaming. (A few years later, I got DEEP into ArmA and DCS, which led my career into academic research connected to defense training and simulation.) Incidentally, this is another reason to be excited about the second coming of Microprose -- I'm unclear on the exact relationship, but I believe I read that some of the same leadership responsible for TitanIM is associated with the new Microprose. TitanIM is a defense simulation engine, using Outerra, which is a world-scale 3d+terrain engine. Tech demos of Outerra are around, and there's at least a few TitanIM videos floating around. I've been out of the sim/training niche for a couple of years, but I believe Titan is still being marketed as a competitor to Virtual Battle Space (VBS) which is the ArmA engine, but expanded and specialized for training, and sold into government with the associated contract support, etc. I have no idea if this overlap in leadership means Microprose might have access to/be using the same tech stack as Titan for the new Microprose games, but if they are, it could be pretty darn cool.
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- duxup 6y agoI wonder how much of a sim it will be. Not sure I'd want to be the bombardier and have to sit for a long time only to get to stare at my screen and push a button ... once. Granted I still like the idea, it will be interesting to see how much they gamify it and how much they do not.
- Spoppys 6y agoDidn't the bombardier typically also operate the chin turret in the B-17?
- ilikepi 6y agoThis was a fun rabbit hole to fall into... http://www.lonesentry.com/blog/bendix-chin-turret.html http://www.lonesentry.com/blog/bendix-chin-turret.html http://ships.bouwman.com/B17/Chin.html http://ships.bouwman.com/B17/Chin.html http://www.b17queenofthesky.com/bombardier.htm http://www.b17queenofthesky.com/bombardier.htm
- xwdv 6y agoWith VR there’s plenty of other emergent gameplay opportunities you can do. You could vomit in a barf bag, talk to crew mates, smoke a cigarette, flip through a magazine, double check your emergency parachute, etc.
- zip1234 6y agoBail out over enemy territory and get captured
- LolWolf 6y agoThen you boot up any of the hyper-realistic WWII ARMA mods and you’re set.
- egypturnash 6y agoI keep reading about people using games for meetings. Set it all on easy so you don't have to worry about really Playing The Game, and you have a nice little limit on the length of your meeting: it all ends when you get to the target and Ralph hits the bomb button.
- exDM69 6y agoIn a same vein, check out Wolfpack on Steam. It is a 1st person coop submarine simulator with WWII era Type VIIC U-boats for max 5 players per sub. I've done a dozen patrols with different 2-4 player crews and it's kinda fun.
- ndonnellan 6y agoMy first thought upon seeing the images in the article: that's not a B-17! But the microprose announcement makes it more clear that the B-24 will be added, https://www.microprose.com/games/the-mighty-eighth# https://www.microprose.com/games/the-mighty-eighth# [edit] historical note: my grandfather was a tailgunner in B-24s.
- burnte 6y agoAn on-again-off-again Murphy's Romance kind of boy friend of my mother in the 80s was a pilot of a B-24. He flew it limping home full of bullet holes more than once. Impressive stories.
- zip1234 6y agoSome truly crazy things happened. One that I always thought was interesting was about two B-17s that collided and then they kept flying on together and even attempted to land: http://overlord-wot.blogspot.com/2015/07/piggyback.html http://overlord-wot.blogspot.com/2015/07/piggyback.html
- bitwize 6y agoAmerican warplanes were the Rocky Balboas of the air: they could take a lot of punishment and keep moving forward.
- smacktoward 6y agoThe title of the new game is just The Mighty Eighth, no specific bomber mentioned. The real-world "Mighty Eighth," the Eighth Air Force (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Air_Force https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Air_Force), operated both B-17s and B-24s.
- daveslash 6y agoCame here to make the same comment.You're not the only one who was immediately struck like that. That said, I still hope to enjoy this game.
- HugoDaniel 6y agoVR seems to be catching on. Is the experience that much better than a normal screen?
- xwdv 6y agoIt’s different, not necessarily better.
- Pfhreak 6y agoFor games specifically designed with VR in mind? Yes, the experience is dramatically different. For many people, the suspension of disbelief is there, and you absolutely feel present in the space. Good VR titles force you to move many more muscle groups than keyboard/mouse or controller games. Your brain stays much more engaged when you have to, e.g., duck out of the way of an incoming projectile. For games where VR is tacked on, or not deliberately handled, it can be a vomit fest. Playing Half Life 2, for instance, is possible in VR but it's very unpleasant. Playing Half Life Alyx, which was built from the ground up to be a VR experience, is incredible.
- thanatos519 6y agoWhat's the big deal? I had that suspension of disbelief in Zork I.
- NateEag 6y agoFor us aphantasiacs, VR is the closest we'll ever come to daydreaming. (I'm not invested in it myself, just making the point.)
- Pfhreak 6y agoVR can trigger reflexive behaviors in people, e.g. trying to avoid an incoming projectile, putting their hands up to protect their face, stepping back from a high place. Many folks can get deep suspension of disbelief from just text. Many folks can't. I don't think it's reasonable to say, "Well, I do just fine with X, so that should be good enough for anyone.", as your comment seems to be implying.
- acheron 6y agoFor anyone interested, this company is unrelated to the original Microprose from a corporate history perspective, it’s just some people who bought the name “Microprose” at an IP auction. However they have enlisted Wild Bill Stealey as some kind of advisor, so they are at least attempting to connect with the history. (Wild Bill was one of the two founders of Microprose. The other, Sid Meier, has his own things going on.) I’m unclear as to whether this new Microprose has rights to any of the original Microprose games, either in a “rereleasing the original” or in a “doing a remake” sense. Obviously TakeTwo has a lot of the rights — either that they bought directly or that Sid/Firaxis had and they acquired when they bought out Firaxis — which is how they can release new Civ and XCOM and Pirates. I think Sid owns Silent Service too, to pick a random example of one they haven’t done anything with, though I don’t remember for sure.
- thev4lley 6y agoInteresting tidbit, thanks. Where does an IP auction tend to happen?
- close04 6y agoWhen companies get dissolved, go bankrupt, or just to make a quick buck they sell or license IP, trademarks, etc. to extract value out of whatever was left. This is how you get the Polaroid and Kodak brands on all kinds of cheap electronics, or company revivals like this. Sometimes only the brand name and logo survive, with no actual IP, tech, knowledge, or personnel being passed on.
- SmallPeePeeMan 6y agoAlso Kodak and General Electric lightbulbs are now just licensed brand names nothing to do with original.
- ghaff 6y agoOne particularly persistent piece of PR scattershot emails I get is for random low-end electronic gadgets with an RCA brand. Though it's not just tech. The Pan American Airways brand seems to periodically get slapped onto some regional airline.
- ben7799 6y agoThis is such a great idea for a VR game, minus the time issues and the whole thing with some of the crew members having nothing to do lots of the time. It has no issues with needing to walk around, but still has a bunch of different types of gameplay. Of course the only thing with all this.. they're trying to make a game that avoids motion sickness.. but flying in these planes during maneuvers could be a vomit fest anyway.. so the game still might make some people sick. Still.. this is the genre that would make me consider getting a VR headset. I'd echo the call from others for a Tie-Fighter/X-Wing remake with a VR headset.. that'd be really fun.
- etse 6y agoYeah, isn't VR perfect for space combat? - Your direction is controlled by the joystick and not the direction of your vision, so you can sit in one direction - You sit in a tight cockpit, so there's no need for fancier VR that tracks positioning of the headset to the room - Inertial dampeners and artificial gravity lessen the need for force feedback (although vibration units in the headset and joystick would be cool
- stuff4ben 6y agoWow, seeing the old MicroProse logo immediately transported me back to the late-80's/early-90's and the cool joysticks (Epyx were the best!) and all of the fun games I played on my C64 and Amiga.
- smacktoward 6y agoI would love to find an Epyx/Atari-style joystick that connects via USB. The only joysticks anyone makes anymore are big hulking flightsticks, but so many older games were designed around those smaller joysticks you held in the palm of your hand. They just don't feel the same with a giant flightstick.
- MrGilbert 6y agoI have MicroProse always connected to Grand Prix 2 and my childhood. We used to play that on my friends computer 25 years ago. Turn by turn - first him, than me, and vice-versa. This game was so much fun. And the damage model was superb. I really miss that.
- benologist 6y agoThey were a big part of my childhood too through their simulators like F-117A, and also through their published titles. They had a massive breadth of games like Darklands, X-COM, Transport Tycoon, Ultima, Pirates!, Master of Orion, Civilization and Colonization. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MicroProse_games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MicroProse_games
- Blackthorn 6y agoAre these accuracy-obsessed simulators an important part of the historical record? We can't personally go back in time and experience what it was like to be part of a bomber crew. But for a museum-sort-of piece, maybe this fits the bill.
- na85 6y agoI fly WWII combat flight simulators (mostly the IL2 Sturmovik series) and there is some very serious research going on both by the developers and by the community. Many of the people that fly these sims are serious enthusiasts, and a scant few even have direct experience restoring warbirds and fabricating parts from vintage drawings.
- meheleventyone 6y agoI’d say not particularly. Most of them are “accuracy obsessed” rather than accurate. Some of that is purely down to lack of horse power for accurate models but also in terms of lack of information, lack of complete simulation and a lot of focus on making a game rather than a simulation. They’re plenty of fun but not really important in terms of illuminating anything about the era of flight and combat they reproduce.
- geoelectric 6y agoF117A Stealth Fighter just showed up on Nintendo Switch of all places, too. https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/f-117a-stealth-fighter-switch/ https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/f-117a-stealth-fighter...
- princevegeta89 6y agoMan, what a coincidence?!! I was just thinking of random things yesterday, and my beloved childhood game Transport Tycoon came into my mind for a bit. Then I immediately recalled Chris Sawyer and his genius, along with his less-known company MicroProse. Totally stunned to see this post on here today!
- garaetjjte 6y agoThere's great open source replacement for Transport Tycoon: https://www.openttd.org/ https://www.openttd.org/
- mezod 6y agoGrand Prix 2 was so epic
- hypertexthero 6y agoIn the meantime, play [IL-2 Sturmovik][1] for an amazing VR experience and in my opinion the best feeling of flight of any flight simulator. Planes feel weighty, wind is simulated well, the damage modelling and physics are minutely detailed, and graphics have recently been updated with deferred shading and other enhancements. The latest [map & battle][2] also includes Western favorites like P-51, P-38, P-47, Typhoon and Spitfire Mk.IX. Here is a [blog post][3] I wrote about it. More to come, including an imminent one discussing ideas to make the game more approachable to a general audience that is more used to War Thunder, and some wishes for the powerful-but-tricky mission editor. [1]: https://il2sturmovik.com/ https://il2sturmovik.com/ [2]: https://il2sturmovik.com/store/battle-of-bodenplatte/ https://il2sturmovik.com/store/battle-of-bodenplatte/ [3]: https://hypertexthero.com/il2-flight-joy/ https://hypertexthero.com/il2-flight-joy/
- jedberg 6y agoIn my gap semester between High School and College, I worked at a retail software store in the mall (yeah, we used to sell software in boxes at the mall!). Since I was the only one on staff who didn't have school in the morning, I always got stuck with the crappy morning shift. Which means I had to clean the store and restock and reprice all the shelves, and I barely got time with customers, which was actually the fun part. But there was one shining star in that morning shift -- that's when all the reps came in to talk to the manager about which software would be on the prime shelves, and handed out free copies for the staff so we could play the games and then talk them up to the customers. The Microprose rep was always awesome. They would bring a bunch of copies of the games for us to play and keep, and they had the rights to the coolest properties (Star Trek, Magic the Gathering, etc). That job sucked but I think I still have some of those free games in a box somewhere.
- hudibras 6y agoIf you have a VR setup and you haven't tried either IL-2 Sturmovik (for WW2) or DCS World (for modern jets and helicopters), you're missing out. You can even try out DCS World for free, with two planes.
- khrbrt 6y agoFor those interested, check out this training film for B-17 gunners voiced by Mel Blanc, better known for his role as Bugs Bunny. https://youtu.be/vtgAyGa79F8 https://youtu.be/vtgAyGa79F8 I wonder how accurate they'll keep the shooting mechanics. As a casual player, I never would have thought to aim three crosshairs to the side of a Messerschmitt coming side-on.
- TeMPOraL 6y agoA "lead indicator" is a standard feature of most games even remotely similar to a fighter sim. You get a box on the HUD that tells you where to shoot to guarantee a hit if the target won't change its velocity vector in between you firing and the projectile reaching it. I assume the same thing exists on real combat planes now. (Of course these are next to useless in space combat sims, as in most games ships maneuver like fighter planes with zero inertia. They're also useless in real air combat these days, as everything is done with missiles from beyond visual range. But sure looked nice on Top Gun.)
- sio8ohPi 6y agoYou might find this video on the use of a late-war Gyro gunsight interesting too, then. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DREz7qI8xRk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DREz7qI8xRk
- basementcat 6y agoSomewhat off topic but the last time I visited the Palm Springs Air Museum, they had a B-17 Flying Fortress that you could crawl inside! I've never been so thrilled to bang my head inside a cramped space. https://palmspringsairmuseum.org https://palmspringsairmuseum.org
- dTal 6y agoI remember the original game had the most haunting, ominous menu music, which managed to re-contextualize the dreary tedium of its accurate simulation of daylight bombing raids into a memorial of those who died doing it. It was an integral part of the sim. I hope the score of this remake is a worthy successor. Apparently the online versions don't have it, only the CD versions; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xggfdrtpFT0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xggfdrtpFT0 This appears to be an exclusive press release to vrfocus.com. However they've apparently been sent many more images than they have chosen to display, for some reason. They seem to have modeled an entire B17 interior, and it is gorgeous: https://www.vrfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/the-mighty-eighth-02.jpg https://www.vrfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/the-might... https://www.vrfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/the-mighty-eighth-03.jpg https://www.vrfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/the-might... https://www.vrfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/the-mighty-eighth-04.jpg https://www.vrfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/the-might... https://www.vrfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/the-mighty-eighth-05.jpg https://www.vrfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/the-might... https://www.vrfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/the-mighty-eighth-06.jpg https://www.vrfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/the-might... https://www.vrfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/the-mighty-eighth-07.jpg https://www.vrfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/the-might... https://www.vrfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/the-mighty-eighth-08.jpg https://www.vrfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/the-might... https://www.vrfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/the-mighty-eighth-09.jpg https://www.vrfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/the-might... https://www.vrfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/the-mighty-eighth-10.jpg https://www.vrfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/the-might... https://www.vrfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/the-mighty-eighth-11.jpg https://www.vrfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/the-might... https://www.vrfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/the-mighty-eighth-12.jpg https://www.vrfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/the-might...