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Google rescinds offers to thousands of contract workers

142 points by ericzawo 6y ago

mc32 6y ago
It sucks for them. But we’re in a slump to sag the least. It’d be nice for them to take on those workers as obligation but obviously they’re not obliged to do that, so they’re not because once the economy comes back people will go back to them due to cachet .
- s3r3nity 6y ago
  >But we're in a slump to say the least. I don't know what this "we" is to which you refer, as Google's Q1 2020 revenue outpaced Wall Street estimates by 3-4%, and shares have increased 6% since their last earnings call, outperforming the S&P 500. I agree with your point that Google, nor any company, is obliged to take on workers if that's their business decision, but let's not pretend that Google is getting hit _that_ hard by the recession.
  - dougmwne 6y ago
    Q1 only covers through the end of March which would have only seen a few weeks of social distancing in some regions. Budgets take time to slash, and ripples take time to spread. The lean times could last for years and the common advice for surviving recessions is to cut as deeply and quickly as you can to preserve cash. That's why many companies are doing layoffs before they actually see a quarterly revenue performance hit. Organizations take time to move so decision makers need to lead the target.
  - rswail 6y ago
    > let's not pretend that Google is getting hit _that_ hard by the recession. yet... Google's primary source of revenue is advertising (84% in 2019). Marketing and advertising are the first things that companies cut.
tenpies 6y ago
I am honestly amazed that people do not seem to realize that all the "tech" companies that are advertising vendors are in deep trouble right now. The numbers are not good and some seriously hard decisions are going to be coming up.
- dpflan 6y ago
  Do you have some sources/data to reference? I have read articles discussing this superficially, e.g. companies reducing ad and marketing expenditure, therefore affecting ad serving platforms.
  - MattGaiser 6y ago
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/technology/coronavirus-google-facebook-advertising.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/technology/coronavirus-go... An NYT article about it. Although I am not sure I agree with the deep trouble assessment. At least for the first quarter, the analysts were too fearful. https://www.thedrum.com/news/2020/04/29/alphabet-posts-sudden-and-significant-slow-down-google-ad-revenue-due-covid-19 https://www.thedrum.com/news/2020/04/29/alphabet-posts-sudde...
    - bhouston 6y ago
      There is a counter argument that online ads is the way to drive traffic to online stores that are currently replacing brick and mortar outlets during quarantine.
  - perl4ever 6y ago
    Ads on youtube seem to have recently gotten much more annoying, to the extent that the last few times I've tried to watch a 20-30 minute video I get sick of it inside of 5 minutes and quit.
- monadic2 6y ago
  Thank god they all have massive amounts of cash to eat through before they have to lay off workers.
MattGaiser 6y ago
Isn’t Google one of the last companies to let its contractors go at this point? Anecdotally I know of only one company that did not let them go at the start of this crisis to preserve cash.
dougmwne 6y ago
As much as it sucks for the 2000 people who won't have their offers honored and especially who many have left other roles for the chance to work at Google, this is the devil's bargin of contract work. You are there specifically so the company can adjust labor resources in real time and with minimal consequences or press. If you don't want to be treated as extra-disposable and second class then don't take contacts, because they are higher risk than FTE. Of course you will also be cutting yourself off from opportunities to quickly gain new experiences, and contracts can frequently lead to FTE offers if your agency structures their contract in your favor.
- dudul 6y ago
  Is there a significant difference between terminating a full time, "at will" employee and a contractor? Other than a few weeks of severance I can't think of any.
  - rwmurrayVT 6y ago
    I don't think "at will" employees are even guaranteed severance pay every where.
    - dudul 6y ago
      True, this is just an expected curtesy, just like the 2 week notice an employee is supposed to give when leaving.
      - derivagral 6y ago
        I always thought this was an odd formality due to the asymmetry; if an employer is terminating you, they generally won't give you a 2 week notice, at least in the USA.
        dudul 6y ago
        But they are supposed to give you 2 weeks of pay. I prefer to get the cash and have 2 weeks, at home, starting the full time search for a new job. Instead of having to show up for 2 weeks while knowing that I will be gone in a few days :)
jeffbee 6y ago
The person quoted in the article was hired as a recruiter. Last time there was a recession, Google axed all its recruiters. If they are unloading their recruiter organization, that says a lot about their full-time hiring rate right now.
- cowmoo728 6y ago
  Sundar himself has commented on this publicly. "We believe now is the time to significantly slow down the pace of hiring, while maintaining momentum in a small number of strategic areas where users and businesses rely on Google for ongoing support, and where our growth is critical to their success." https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/15/21222942/google-slowing-down-hiring-through-2020-covid-19-pandemic https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/15/21222942/google-slowing-d...
jeffbee 6y ago
It’s really a shame that with a company of this size and importance we don’t enjoy a newsletter like “Shannon Knows DEC”. I’d love to get an inside perspective about current events at google from someone with deep contacts and a real understanding of the business.
- alkibiades 6y ago
  i can tell you from experience it’s often misrepresented as well. the leadership will say something in an internal announcement and when it gets leaked it’s like a game of telephone. where the news is slightly different than what was actually said
otterley 6y ago
"Some of the would-be contractors left stable, full-time jobs once they received an employment offer at Google and are now searching for work in a difficult labor market." This is a good example of why it's a good idea for agencies and independents to write penalty clauses into contracts, so that if the hiring company rescinds the agreement, they must compensate the contractor for lost opportunity costs. (On a side note, "employment offer at Google" is a bit misleading; the employer is typically an agency, not Google.)
- momokoko 6y ago
  Correct. Many of these people will not qualify for unemployment benefits because they willfully quit their other job and because of the US system are at serious risk of destitution and homelessness unless they have friends or family that will support them during this time.
  - gnopgnip 6y ago
    Quitting to start a new job does not prevent you from receiving unemployment. There is no blanket prohibition on receiving unemployment if you quit. You qualify for unemployment if you lost your job through no fault of your own, or you quit for good cause
    - jeffbee 6y ago
      I don't know what jurisdiction you are specifically discussing, but in California you cannot collect unemployment if you simply left your job. You must show "good cause" for leaving, where "good cause" includes things like violence and physical danger, but not "I thought I could get paid more across town".
      - gnopgnip 6y ago
        In CA specifically if you accept a better job and quit, then later this other job never materializes that is good cause and you would qualify for unemployment. Per https://www.edd.ca.gov/uibdg/Voluntary_Quit_VQ_5.htm https://www.edd.ca.gov/uibdg/Voluntary_Quit_VQ_5.htm on whether a voluntary quit qualifies for unemployment >[T]he quitting must be for such a cause as would reasonably motivate in a similar situation the average able-bodied and qualified worker to give up his or her employment with its certain wage rewards in order to enter the ranks of the . . . unemployed.
devchix 6y ago
Do Google contractors make more than Google employees? If yes, the premium is the priced-in risk. I sincerely don't know, but US government contractors make more than the GSA schedule counterpart.
- decebalus1 6y ago
  Don't think so. It depends on the type of contractor. If you're independent, you might (although you don't get stock and stock is a sizable portion of an FTEs total comp) but if you're actually working for Accenture/Wipro/Infosys/etc.. and they send you to Google on a contract, most definitely not.
- bencorman 6y ago
  We're misusing the term contractor in this thread. There are about 130,000 TVCs at Google (Temps, Vendors, and Contractors) according to the article. The overwhelming majority of those are vendors, who provide security, staff cafeterias, call centers, etc. A few thousand are temps, who do the same work as an FTE but on a fixed-term basis with a cap at 2 years. Temps are employees of a staffing agency like Adecco which rents them out to Google for a rate about 2-3x the hourly pay of the temp. The number of actual contractors, who are self-employed and have contracts directly with Google, is just a few hundred. They likely do make more than many FTEs, at least lower-level ones.
subsubzero 6y ago
non-paywall link: https://beta.trimread.com/articles/18758 https://beta.trimread.com/articles/18758

142 points by ericzawo 6y ago

mc32 6y ago

It sucks for them. But we’re in a slump to sag the least. It’d be nice for them to take on those workers as obligation but obviously they’re not obliged to do that, so they’re not because once the economy comes back people will go back to them due to cachet .

s3r3nity 6y ago
>But we're in a slump to say the least. I don't know what this "we" is to which you refer, as Google's Q1 2020 revenue outpaced Wall Street estimates by 3-4%, and shares have increased 6% since their last earnings call, outperforming the S&P 500. I agree with your point that Google, nor any company, is obliged to take on workers if that's their business decision, but let's not pretend that Google is getting hit _that_ hard by the recession.
- dougmwne 6y ago
  Q1 only covers through the end of March which would have only seen a few weeks of social distancing in some regions. Budgets take time to slash, and ripples take time to spread. The lean times could last for years and the common advice for surviving recessions is to cut as deeply and quickly as you can to preserve cash. That's why many companies are doing layoffs before they actually see a quarterly revenue performance hit. Organizations take time to move so decision makers need to lead the target.
- rswail 6y ago
  > let's not pretend that Google is getting hit _that_ hard by the recession. yet... Google's primary source of revenue is advertising (84% in 2019). Marketing and advertising are the first things that companies cut.

tenpies 6y ago

I am honestly amazed that people do not seem to realize that all the "tech" companies that are advertising vendors are in deep trouble right now. The numbers are not good and some seriously hard decisions are going to be coming up.

dpflan 6y ago
Do you have some sources/data to reference? I have read articles discussing this superficially, e.g. companies reducing ad and marketing expenditure, therefore affecting ad serving platforms.
- MattGaiser 6y ago
  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/technology/coronavirus-google-facebook-advertising.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/technology/coronavirus-go... An NYT article about it. Although I am not sure I agree with the deep trouble assessment. At least for the first quarter, the analysts were too fearful. https://www.thedrum.com/news/2020/04/29/alphabet-posts-sudden-and-significant-slow-down-google-ad-revenue-due-covid-19 https://www.thedrum.com/news/2020/04/29/alphabet-posts-sudde...
  - bhouston 6y ago
    There is a counter argument that online ads is the way to drive traffic to online stores that are currently replacing brick and mortar outlets during quarantine.
- perl4ever 6y ago
  Ads on youtube seem to have recently gotten much more annoying, to the extent that the last few times I've tried to watch a 20-30 minute video I get sick of it inside of 5 minutes and quit.
monadic2 6y ago
Thank god they all have massive amounts of cash to eat through before they have to lay off workers.

MattGaiser 6y ago

Isn’t Google one of the last companies to let its contractors go at this point? Anecdotally I know of only one company that did not let them go at the start of this crisis to preserve cash.

dougmwne 6y ago

As much as it sucks for the 2000 people who won't have their offers honored and especially who many have left other roles for the chance to work at Google, this is the devil's bargin of contract work. You are there specifically so the company can adjust labor resources in real time and with minimal consequences or press. If you don't want to be treated as extra-disposable and second class then don't take contacts, because they are higher risk than FTE. Of course you will also be cutting yourself off from opportunities to quickly gain new experiences, and contracts can frequently lead to FTE offers if your agency structures their contract in your favor.

dudul 6y ago
Is there a significant difference between terminating a full time, "at will" employee and a contractor? Other than a few weeks of severance I can't think of any.
- rwmurrayVT 6y ago
  I don't think "at will" employees are even guaranteed severance pay every where.
  - dudul 6y ago
    True, this is just an expected curtesy, just like the 2 week notice an employee is supposed to give when leaving.
    - derivagral 6y ago
      I always thought this was an odd formality due to the asymmetry; if an employer is terminating you, they generally won't give you a 2 week notice, at least in the USA.
      - dudul 6y ago
        But they are supposed to give you 2 weeks of pay. I prefer to get the cash and have 2 weeks, at home, starting the full time search for a new job. Instead of having to show up for 2 weeks while knowing that I will be gone in a few days :)

jeffbee 6y ago

The person quoted in the article was hired as a recruiter. Last time there was a recession, Google axed all its recruiters. If they are unloading their recruiter organization, that says a lot about their full-time hiring rate right now.

cowmoo728 6y ago
Sundar himself has commented on this publicly. "We believe now is the time to significantly slow down the pace of hiring, while maintaining momentum in a small number of strategic areas where users and businesses rely on Google for ongoing support, and where our growth is critical to their success." https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/15/21222942/google-slowing-down-hiring-through-2020-covid-19-pandemic https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/15/21222942/google-slowing-d...

jeffbee 6y ago

It’s really a shame that with a company of this size and importance we don’t enjoy a newsletter like “Shannon Knows DEC”. I’d love to get an inside perspective about current events at google from someone with deep contacts and a real understanding of the business.

alkibiades 6y ago
i can tell you from experience it’s often misrepresented as well. the leadership will say something in an internal announcement and when it gets leaked it’s like a game of telephone. where the news is slightly different than what was actually said

otterley 6y ago

"Some of the would-be contractors left stable, full-time jobs once they received an employment offer at Google and are now searching for work in a difficult labor market." This is a good example of why it's a good idea for agencies and independents to write penalty clauses into contracts, so that if the hiring company rescinds the agreement, they must compensate the contractor for lost opportunity costs. (On a side note, "employment offer at Google" is a bit misleading; the employer is typically an agency, not Google.)

momokoko 6y ago
Correct. Many of these people will not qualify for unemployment benefits because they willfully quit their other job and because of the US system are at serious risk of destitution and homelessness unless they have friends or family that will support them during this time.
- gnopgnip 6y ago
  Quitting to start a new job does not prevent you from receiving unemployment. There is no blanket prohibition on receiving unemployment if you quit. You qualify for unemployment if you lost your job through no fault of your own, or you quit for good cause
  - jeffbee 6y ago
    I don't know what jurisdiction you are specifically discussing, but in California you cannot collect unemployment if you simply left your job. You must show "good cause" for leaving, where "good cause" includes things like violence and physical danger, but not "I thought I could get paid more across town".
    - gnopgnip 6y ago
      In CA specifically if you accept a better job and quit, then later this other job never materializes that is good cause and you would qualify for unemployment. Per https://www.edd.ca.gov/uibdg/Voluntary_Quit_VQ_5.htm https://www.edd.ca.gov/uibdg/Voluntary_Quit_VQ_5.htm on whether a voluntary quit qualifies for unemployment >[T]he quitting must be for such a cause as would reasonably motivate in a similar situation the average able-bodied and qualified worker to give up his or her employment with its certain wage rewards in order to enter the ranks of the . . . unemployed.

devchix 6y ago

Do Google contractors make more than Google employees? If yes, the premium is the priced-in risk. I sincerely don't know, but US government contractors make more than the GSA schedule counterpart.

decebalus1 6y ago
Don't think so. It depends on the type of contractor. If you're independent, you might (although you don't get stock and stock is a sizable portion of an FTEs total comp) but if you're actually working for Accenture/Wipro/Infosys/etc.. and they send you to Google on a contract, most definitely not.
bencorman 6y ago
We're misusing the term contractor in this thread. There are about 130,000 TVCs at Google (Temps, Vendors, and Contractors) according to the article. The overwhelming majority of those are vendors, who provide security, staff cafeterias, call centers, etc. A few thousand are temps, who do the same work as an FTE but on a fixed-term basis with a cap at 2 years. Temps are employees of a staffing agency like Adecco which rents them out to Google for a rate about 2-3x the hourly pay of the temp. The number of actual contractors, who are self-employed and have contracts directly with Google, is just a few hundred. They likely do make more than many FTEs, at least lower-level ones.

subsubzero 6y ago

non-paywall link: https://beta.trimread.com/articles/18758 https://beta.trimread.com/articles/18758