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Linux Sucks 2020

100 points by zerof1l 6y ago

LockAndLol 6y ago
Linux devs running Macs is definitely a thing. There are so many pro opensource people running Macs and it just boggles my mind. Just why?
throwaway888abc 6y ago
Why not help make it better by sending some pull requests or patches ? One and half hour long rant. Not exactly hacker mindset.
- input_sh 6y ago
  It's a yearly thing of his that he spends like half an hour complaining about desktop experience and then twists it around and basically uses the same arguments to say that it's awesome. Simplified example: way too many desktop environments, why do we need so many half-arsed ones? Half an hour later: woo, we can choose which desktop experience fits our needs the best, who else can do that? I've followed it for like two or three years and then got tired of the format.
  - imtringued 6y ago
    I've seen a bunch of videos on Youtube where a Linux user is basically analyzing problems in the UI of common desktop environments for Linux and compares them to how the UX is on other OSs. Not sure if those youtubers are actually developers working on the patches because they also report when something they complained about gets fixed.
    - karateka 6y ago
      That sounds quite interesting, do you recall what any of those videos are called or who uploaded them?
      - Nullabillity 6y ago
        Tantacrul did one on MuseScore[0] (a music composing program), and ended up getting hired as their head of design[1]. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hZxo96x48A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hZxo96x48A [1]: Mentioned in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-3wEC6Fj_8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-3wEC6Fj_8, but don't have the exact timestamp
        swiley 6y ago
        Criticizing a single application is very different than criticizing the availability of different GUI toolkits.
    - swiley 6y ago
      I’ve never quite understood the “Linux DEs and GUIs are inconsistent” complaint. I wouldn’t want everything to be GTK because that’s IMO not a great GUI toolkit.
      - Normal_gaussian 6y ago
        I use a pretty default i3wm/i3bar/dmenu setup as my 'de'. The best things about it is its not like the other GUIs. It has no discoverability, and its small and "hard" to see. Which is great, because I know it backwards and would like to look at other things. I don't know Krita, and it requires a lot of focus. Boy am I glad its not like my de.
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
        Yeah, I mean, who would want their environment to function consistently?
- nix23 6y ago
  Why not work in another project where the work actually makes fun?
- WalterGR 6y ago
  No one is allowed to criticize open source / free software. To generalize, no one is allowed to criticize things they can improve. Why not help making it easier to send pull requests or patches, rather than complaining about his complaint?
- TimGremalm 6y ago
  It's more like a roast by a comedian. Bryan Lunduke have made this talk many times before at Linux conferences.
- watwut 6y ago
  Only praise is allowed. Making pull request or patch would take significantly more time the writing one and half hour long rant.
- nefasti 6y ago
  And that answer is one of the reasons Linux sucks.
grillorafael 6y ago
Can you all please listen the thing fully before complaining ?
- nix23 6y ago
  No thanks, its getting old, also not fun anymore, every year the same blabla, wanna 'waste' your time? At least do it with that :) https://web.mit.edu/~simsong/www/ugh.pdf https://web.mit.edu/~simsong/www/ugh.pdf
  - cecja 6y ago
    You are not fun anymore :(
  - rrmm 6y ago
    Unix haters handbook is fun stuff. If you're into unix, it deserves a read.
    - nix23 6y ago
      YES, absolutely!
  - MaxBarraclough 6y ago
    > every year the same blabla No, absolutely not. For instance he talks about how Linux is now a pretty good OS for gaming, something which certainly hasn't always been true. He also talks about Stallman stepping down, and his concerns with what he perceives to be recent cultural changes in the FOSS world.
square_usual 6y ago
For others like me who were wondering what the site hosting this video is, it's apparently a peer-to-peer file host with some blockchain thrown in to make it a marketplace. You can read their "About" page here: https://lbry.com/what https://lbry.com/what (The about page was frustratingly hard to get to, I had to navigate through four pages before I got there.)
- MaxBarraclough 6y ago
  I second the comments over at [0]: it's not terribly clear what they're going for, or why they're offering a client to download. Is this meant to be a web-based solution, or not? That 'what' page you linked is just awful. Endless rambling. Their web video hosting seems to work well though. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13928774 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13928774
- flobosg 6y ago
  This is mentioned in the release announcement (https://lunduke.com/posts/2020-05-28/ https://lunduke.com/posts/2020-05-28/): > For the first week, Linux Sucks 2020 is only available (for free) via LBRY. (After one week it will become available everywhere else as well.) LBRY is a great fit for Linux Sucks – Open source and DRM-Free. > You can watch Linux Sucks 2020, right now, the following ways: > - straight from the LBRY.tv website > - or (even better) you can install the LBRY application to download and play the DRM-Free video
- syradar 6y ago
  If you scroll down to the bottom of "modern" web sites the about link is in the footer.
  - shim__ 6y ago
    Only if it's a good one, the bad ones will just load more content before you're able to click anything in the footer
29athrowaway 6y ago
This video is sad to watch and could not wait for it to actually end. 1) Low popularity does not mean something sucks. Listen to the global top 10 playlist on Spotify and you will know what I am talking about: the worst, least creative music ever made happens to be the most popular and the greatest works of music in the history of humanity are much less popular. 2) There are many solutions for backwards compatibility, some of them are listed in this video (AppImage, Flatpak) and other ways of making software more self-contained. Now... WINE can sometimes be more backwards compatible than Windows. 3) "Linux foundation executive director presents from a Mac". Well, this has been observed in Microsoft talks too. In fact, there's one talk where the presenter cannot get Internet Explorer to do what he wants so he takes a moment to install Chrome. 4) "Linux people are dumb"... Are they? I would not say so.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Icyphox 6y ago
  I'm smhing so hard right now.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
elpescado 6y ago
Is there a version for literate people?
- cecja 6y ago
  It's a yearly skit he does in front of a live audience and because of covid he did it in a video. In written form you might actually think he is serious.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
Everything sucks, 2020 edition: If you use any complex system enough, whether that’s hardware based, software based, or people based, you’ll eventually get come up against all the pain-points. Especially if you’re tired and / or under time constraints.
- MaxBarraclough 6y ago
  Sure, nothing is perfect. So what? That doesn't mean his points are invalid. It's clear the guy isn't just some clueless Linux-hater.
sergeykish 6y ago
TLDR Linux sucks because people do not care much about OS anymore [0], default setup does not run old games, there is no Steve Jobs like dictator, it is sponsored. [0] https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=linux,ubuntu,android,ios,windows https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=linux,ub... ----- From my perspective these are reason Linux rocks 1. Yay! With web I do not care as much about software, I am free to use Linux. 2. Yay! Even for running old apps on Linux there is solution. 3. Yay! I am not a serf, I can move to other distros. And there are a lot of them. 4. Yay! It would be impossible to have such hardware support without sponsors and hired developers. You've done a great job, thank you. There are a lot of Linux users - some hate Microsoft with passion, some curse Poettering, some crave world domination - you've got a place too! There is so much casual media attention now: * Linux Gaming FINALLY Doesn't SUCK! Sep 22, 2018 (2 000 000 views) [1] * Microsoft Should be VERY Afraid - Noob's Guide to Linux Gaming, Apr 9, 2019 (2 000 000 views) [2] Steam games just work thanks to https://www.protondb.com/ https://www.protondb.com/ (wine basically). I was amazed that MX Linux intro has 120 000 views [3] And finally, there was one technical question. Linux Filesystem Hierarchy Standard (FHS) is developers setup - evergreen /include, /lib. I can recompile all installed packages. I've compiled latest Firefox on Linux. I've compiled Firefox on Windows, it is quite different experience. I've compiled Firefox 3.6 on Linux a month ago, that's different experience too - patching source, requires old pango version. This setup suits me. Would it be interesting to have make dependencies as they were in Firefox 3.6 days? Absolutely. Does it drug Linux back? No, this case is minor. Same with old binaries. Anyone who cares enough can find or create such distro. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWJUphbYnpg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWJUphbYnpg [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co6FePZoNgE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co6FePZoNgE [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XVHA4l4Zrc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XVHA4l4Zrc
- tsar9x 6y ago
  > 1. Yay! With web I do not care as much about software, I am free to use Linux. This. Web and electron apps is the greatest thing that happened to "linux desktop". I know that they sucks and are slow, but without it I would not be able to use linux for work.
  - deleted 6y ago
MaxBarraclough 6y ago
I'm unable to reply to 29athrowaway so I'll post this at the top level: Regarding backward compatibility (discussed around 32:00 in the video), do solutions like AppImage and Flatpak work for the examples he shows (the three proprietary games that were ported to Linux)?
Avamander 6y ago
I already disagree with the first reason. Poor backwards compatibility is a good thing, it does not let tech debt to accumulate too much. AppImage and containers are just for hiding that tech debt.
- felixguendling 6y ago
  I don't think that the main purpose of AppImage and containers is to hide technical debt. Being able to package an application 1x to run on many Linux distributions is a huge plus - notably if you don't want to waste resources supporting Ubuntu, RHEL, Gentoo, Arch, etc. by maintaing a separate package for each and every Linux package manager out there. The same is true for Docker: having a consistent environment is just very useful.
  - Avamander 6y ago
    > I don't think that the main purpose of AppImage and containers is to hide technical debt. It might not be the main advertised purpose, but it's the result. Why bother updating some dependency when you can simply not? It makes sense not to, things could break.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
      > Why bother updating some dependency when you can simply not? [derp]
      - Avamander 6y ago
        You just repeated what I said. I answered that question.
        AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
        You're right, my bad. However, I think "things could break" is ultimately a worse evil than "it might have vulnerabilities". This seems to be the main point of disagreement.
tux3 6y ago
About the systemd logo, the weird rewind symbol in brackets, I think it's meant to be the [ OK] that linux (used to) print on boot for every line. Someone correct me if I'm wrong!
- floo 6y ago
  Exactly: https://brand.systemd.io/ https://brand.systemd.io/ Baffling how he didn't manage to find that on google.
Avamander 6y ago
In my opinion, this list is much much better: https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.t...
- Icyphox 6y ago
  You clearly don't understand Linux Sucks.
  - Avamander 6y ago
    Do illuminate all of us, or do you just dislike the article I linked?
- itvision 6y ago
  There's some serious work put into it.
- ArchD 6y ago
  What a dose of reality for anyone yearning for Linux desktop to succeed. I use Linux at work and at home because of the configurability and security and because our servers run Linux but I absolutely do not enjoy tinkering around when things don't work. Although I can usually figure out a way or workaround, it's such a waste of time and life is short. I wouldn't mind paying as much for a Linux distro that just works as I would for Windows 10, or even double. But one can only dream. I've filed and commented on quite a few bugs only to have them ignored. The paid support for Ubuntu has a minimal order size of 10, so it's not really an option especially since I don't know how well it works. I wonder how big the market is for a paid Linux distro that just works. Given the general user-unfriendliness of Linux desktop, I can see why so many people use Macbooks who work on Linux. Maybe the servers they work on run Linux. Can't really call the individuals 'dumb' though, like what the video does. At most the Linux 'organization' on the whole comprising these individuals, if there's such a thing, is 'dumb'.
  - Avamander 6y ago
    > I wouldn't mind paying as much for a Linux distro that just works as I would for Windows 10, or even double. But one can only dream. Well, noone would stop us from donating that money. I'd personally like a Patreon-like system, if people donate enough they'll get better service, they reach some threshold, someone could be hired. Though it probably has a lot of nuances and would take a few years minimum to have a somewhat working system. I'd really like to see an experiment like that.
azangru 6y ago
Guys, looking through the comments, I am afraid you are being way too serious. Bryan Lunduke has been giving Linux Sucks talks at LinuxFest NorthWest for many years; they are intended as humorous and good fun.
- AshamedCaptain 6y ago
  Same thing happens every year.
- itvision 6y ago
  Didn't he promise a few years ago that he'd stop releasing this video?
  - kees99 6y ago
    He'll probably stop once we had a year of Linux on desktop.
lerax 6y ago
Brian makes me laugh everytime. Although the humorous critics that he do, almost point he raises there is an underlying truth on it. Linux Sucks not entirely, but some parts sucks so hard. I use Linux daily for almost ten years, and oh hell, it's pretty much better than Windows, but there is no way to deny the problems on it. But Linux is getting better! <3
- gridlockd 6y ago
  I think Linux is getting worse, but Windows and Mac OS are getting worse faster, so it feels like progress.
  - em-bee 6y ago
    walking backwards, just slower? ;-)
    - fargle 6y ago
      sucks so bad it's losing the race to the bottom...
  - lerax 6y ago
    That is sad and wish it could be a joke. But there are days I think the same... today I cannot not even run zsnes without problems on most of distros (Arch/Ubuntu/Etc). Linux backward compatibility it's so terrible.
    - weare138 6y ago
      But this isn't just a Linux problem though. Backwards compatibility sucks on Windows and MacOS too. At least Windows tries to give you some janky backwards compatibility options, with questionable results. MacOS just deprecates API's, drops support for older versions of MacOS and tells their users to go buy new stuff.
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
fbn79 6y ago
I think was Churchill that said "Linux is the worst form of operating system, except for all the others."
- gridlockd 6y ago
  ...in the alternative history timeline where Churchill was the communist and Stalin the tory.
  - hackeraccount 6y ago
    Churchill as he was would fit right into Linux. It's a combination of love of the old, tried and true with desperate experimentation that would appeal to his nature. Stalin? Victory at any cost with no thought to the means to reach that end? Hurd? Just saying.
talkingtab 6y ago
Click bait headline. Why is this kind of sensationalist title allowed on HN? edit: I don't object to the content, but the headline.
- MaxBarraclough 6y ago
  I'm not sure I'd call it 'clickbait' exactly. The title works well as an intentionally irreverent name for a well intentioned series by someone who is clearly very serious about Linux. Not an ideal fit as a Hacker News title though.
- chris_wot 6y ago
  No, no it's not. That is literally the talk he has done for many, many years.
  - talkingtab 6y ago
    I understand the video is worthwhile. What I object to is the title on the post. "The linux sucks website has a good video" would be a great title, for example. As it stands, it panders to those of us who like linux and those of us who don't like linux. The title appeals to the worst in us. To be clear I do not object to the content, but I find the title to be divisive click bait.
    - chris_wot 6y ago
      That’s the name of the talk. The humerous talk.
itvision 6y ago
Linux is not winning on mobile in any shape or form. All mobile vendors use a highly-customized Linux kernel which has nothing to do with mainline and aside from the kernel, there's not much to write home about. So, maybe Bryan could have been a little bit more honest from the get go.
- zozbot234 6y ago
  > Linux is not winning on mobile in any shape or form. All mobile vendors use a highly-customized Linux kernel which has nothing to do with mainline That's not a "Linux on mobile" problem; it's a "Linux on anything embedded" problem, and steps are being taken to address it. You can run a close-to-mainline kernel already on some devices, it's just not the default. And work is ongoing to also port common non-mobile Linux userland setups to mobile, so that the same stack will eventually be useful for both. A lot of non-trivial work is involved.
  - itvision 6y ago
    This will always be hamstrung by the lack of stable APIs - the issue which Google is so fed up with, they are in a process of writing their own microkernel, zircon. You might have noticed that Android phones are supported at most for three years - that's because HW vendors refuse to maintain their drivers compatibility with lots of different kernel versions - it's expensive and takes a lot of work. Once you have stable kernel APIs - you can write a driver once and forget about it for eternity.
    - zozbot234 6y ago
      Not a problem if the drivers are written to be easy to forward port. But that's not the approach that embedded BSP's generally take.
      - itvision 6y ago
        Again you offer people to work/invest more just to comply with Linux for very dubious benefits if any. This is not how businesses operate.
maxfromua 6y ago
"Arch users are vegans of the Linux world" - excellent comparison :)
tinnet 6y ago
As much as i like lunduke usually, i find it a bit unreflected to just say "we are stupid for banning our founders" without acknowledging anything they might have done wrong. I do agree that the pitchforks approach to public disagreements should not be our (or anybodies) default. But "leave our founders alone" is not a policy I'd personally subscribe too either. Also vaguely poking fun at therapy as if it was a punishment for something is just plain immature.
hs86 6y ago
One of his main complaints is "People who promote Linux, don't run Linux" and he specifically focuses on those who hold Linux-related talks at conferences on devices that don't run Linux on the desktop. Can you look at https://www.linuxfoundation.org/membership/members/ https://www.linuxfoundation.org/membership/members/ and easily point out those companies, that have a crucial business stake on Linux on the desktop? I can't. Most people, who are paid to work on Linux and its surrounding ecosystem, are working for companies that are interested on Linux on servers / the cloud and I don't think that it is fair to criticize them for not joining the idealistic movement of bringing Linux onto more desktops.
- kerny 6y ago
  When you see majority of consultants from the biggest Linux company (that also focuses on desktop Linux) using Macs for their work, you know that Linux on desktops won't happen anytime soon.
2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
This is the first Linux Sucks that I have seen and although it's humorous it doesn't seem like satire. The issues he humorously points out are real issues with the Linux desktop today. I've been saying for a long time that one of the beauties of Linux is that anyone and everyone can do their own thing but that can also be a weakness. You have thousands of incredible talented developers doing their own thing. If you piss off some of the talent on your own projects they'll leave and do their own thing. That's beautiful in a way but it does weaken the Linux desktop as a whole. A benevolent dictator / vision is counterintuitive to the OSS spirit but it's priceless IMO.
- sergeykish 6y ago
  That's scary idea. As a Linux user I am a refugee from Windows. Expat now. They have dictators there, they've got resources, they switch development tools one after another. But somehow they failed. I knew nothing else but I could not stand that anymore. So I switched and found my promised land, my distribution, my community. That was 12 years ago. I believe each distribution, each application starts from someone with vision. People flock if they like it. Top down approach usually harms - pulse audio and systemd community split still unresolved. > my view of history says that mistakes made by a leader (or made in a leader's name) are amplified by the numbers who follow without question. Frank Herbert on Dune
mattrick 6y ago
In regards to search interest, I have a feeling that specific distributions (specifically "Ubuntu") have replaced the use of "Linux" in Google searches.
floriol 6y ago
I kind of like this guy, as in he is funny. But seeing the previous linux sucks videos as well, I must say that he most definitely don't have a too deep knowledge of linux - and it is kind of mean to call Linux people dumb who advocate for flatpak over appimage, especially that he don't really understand the problem at hand. (though imo nix is the only one solving the problem properly)

Linux Sucks 2020

100 points by zerof1l 6y ago

Linux devs running Macs is definitely a thing. There are so many pro opensource people running Macs and it just boggles my mind. Just why?

throwaway888abc 6y ago

Why not help make it better by sending some pull requests or patches ? One and half hour long rant. Not exactly hacker mindset.

input_sh 6y ago
It's a yearly thing of his that he spends like half an hour complaining about desktop experience and then twists it around and basically uses the same arguments to say that it's awesome. Simplified example: way too many desktop environments, why do we need so many half-arsed ones? Half an hour later: woo, we can choose which desktop experience fits our needs the best, who else can do that? I've followed it for like two or three years and then got tired of the format.
- imtringued 6y ago
  I've seen a bunch of videos on Youtube where a Linux user is basically analyzing problems in the UI of common desktop environments for Linux and compares them to how the UX is on other OSs. Not sure if those youtubers are actually developers working on the patches because they also report when something they complained about gets fixed.
  - karateka 6y ago
    That sounds quite interesting, do you recall what any of those videos are called or who uploaded them?
    - Nullabillity 6y ago
      Tantacrul did one on MuseScore[0] (a music composing program), and ended up getting hired as their head of design[1]. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hZxo96x48A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hZxo96x48A [1]: Mentioned in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-3wEC6Fj_8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-3wEC6Fj_8, but don't have the exact timestamp
      - swiley 6y ago
        Criticizing a single application is very different than criticizing the availability of different GUI toolkits.
  - swiley 6y ago
    I’ve never quite understood the “Linux DEs and GUIs are inconsistent” complaint. I wouldn’t want everything to be GTK because that’s IMO not a great GUI toolkit.
    - Normal_gaussian 6y ago
      I use a pretty default i3wm/i3bar/dmenu setup as my 'de'. The best things about it is its not like the other GUIs. It has no discoverability, and its small and "hard" to see. Which is great, because I know it backwards and would like to look at other things. I don't know Krita, and it requires a lot of focus. Boy am I glad its not like my de.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
      Yeah, I mean, who would want their environment to function consistently?
nix23 6y ago
Why not work in another project where the work actually makes fun?
WalterGR 6y ago
No one is allowed to criticize open source / free software. To generalize, no one is allowed to criticize things they can improve. Why not help making it easier to send pull requests or patches, rather than complaining about his complaint?
TimGremalm 6y ago
It's more like a roast by a comedian. Bryan Lunduke have made this talk many times before at Linux conferences.
watwut 6y ago
Only praise is allowed. Making pull request or patch would take significantly more time the writing one and half hour long rant.
nefasti 6y ago
And that answer is one of the reasons Linux sucks.

grillorafael 6y ago

Can you all please listen the thing fully before complaining ?

nix23 6y ago
No thanks, its getting old, also not fun anymore, every year the same blabla, wanna 'waste' your time? At least do it with that :) https://web.mit.edu/~simsong/www/ugh.pdf https://web.mit.edu/~simsong/www/ugh.pdf
- cecja 6y ago
  You are not fun anymore :(
- rrmm 6y ago
  Unix haters handbook is fun stuff. If you're into unix, it deserves a read.
  - nix23 6y ago
    YES, absolutely!
- MaxBarraclough 6y ago
  > every year the same blabla No, absolutely not. For instance he talks about how Linux is now a pretty good OS for gaming, something which certainly hasn't always been true. He also talks about Stallman stepping down, and his concerns with what he perceives to be recent cultural changes in the FOSS world.

square_usual 6y ago

For others like me who were wondering what the site hosting this video is, it's apparently a peer-to-peer file host with some blockchain thrown in to make it a marketplace. You can read their "About" page here: https://lbry.com/what https://lbry.com/what (The about page was frustratingly hard to get to, I had to navigate through four pages before I got there.)

MaxBarraclough 6y ago
I second the comments over at [0]: it's not terribly clear what they're going for, or why they're offering a client to download. Is this meant to be a web-based solution, or not? That 'what' page you linked is just awful. Endless rambling. Their web video hosting seems to work well though. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13928774 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13928774
flobosg 6y ago
This is mentioned in the release announcement (https://lunduke.com/posts/2020-05-28/ https://lunduke.com/posts/2020-05-28/): > For the first week, Linux Sucks 2020 is only available (for free) via LBRY. (After one week it will become available everywhere else as well.) LBRY is a great fit for Linux Sucks – Open source and DRM-Free. > You can watch Linux Sucks 2020, right now, the following ways: > - straight from the LBRY.tv website > - or (even better) you can install the LBRY application to download and play the DRM-Free video
syradar 6y ago
If you scroll down to the bottom of "modern" web sites the about link is in the footer.
- shim__ 6y ago
  Only if it's a good one, the bad ones will just load more content before you're able to click anything in the footer

29athrowaway 6y ago

This video is sad to watch and could not wait for it to actually end. 1) Low popularity does not mean something sucks. Listen to the global top 10 playlist on Spotify and you will know what I am talking about: the worst, least creative music ever made happens to be the most popular and the greatest works of music in the history of humanity are much less popular. 2) There are many solutions for backwards compatibility, some of them are listed in this video (AppImage, Flatpak) and other ways of making software more self-contained. Now... WINE can sometimes be more backwards compatible than Windows. 3) "Linux foundation executive director presents from a Mac". Well, this has been observed in Microsoft talks too. In fact, there's one talk where the presenter cannot get Internet Explorer to do what he wants so he takes a moment to install Chrome. 4) "Linux people are dumb"... Are they? I would not say so.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Icyphox 6y ago
I'm smhing so hard right now.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

elpescado 6y ago

Is there a version for literate people?

cecja 6y ago
It's a yearly skit he does in front of a live audience and because of covid he did it in a video. In written form you might actually think he is serious.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago

Everything sucks, 2020 edition: If you use any complex system enough, whether that’s hardware based, software based, or people based, you’ll eventually get come up against all the pain-points. Especially if you’re tired and / or under time constraints.

MaxBarraclough 6y ago
Sure, nothing is perfect. So what? That doesn't mean his points are invalid. It's clear the guy isn't just some clueless Linux-hater.

sergeykish 6y ago

TLDR Linux sucks because people do not care much about OS anymore [0], default setup does not run old games, there is no Steve Jobs like dictator, it is sponsored. [0] https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=linux,ubuntu,android,ios,windows https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=linux,ub... ----- From my perspective these are reason Linux rocks 1. Yay! With web I do not care as much about software, I am free to use Linux. 2. Yay! Even for running old apps on Linux there is solution. 3. Yay! I am not a serf, I can move to other distros. And there are a lot of them. 4. Yay! It would be impossible to have such hardware support without sponsors and hired developers. You've done a great job, thank you. There are a lot of Linux users - some hate Microsoft with passion, some curse Poettering, some crave world domination - you've got a place too! There is so much casual media attention now: * Linux Gaming FINALLY Doesn't SUCK! Sep 22, 2018 (2 000 000 views) [1] * Microsoft Should be VERY Afraid - Noob's Guide to Linux Gaming, Apr 9, 2019 (2 000 000 views) [2] Steam games just work thanks to https://www.protondb.com/ https://www.protondb.com/ (wine basically). I was amazed that MX Linux intro has 120 000 views [3] And finally, there was one technical question. Linux Filesystem Hierarchy Standard (FHS) is developers setup - evergreen /include, /lib. I can recompile all installed packages. I've compiled latest Firefox on Linux. I've compiled Firefox on Windows, it is quite different experience. I've compiled Firefox 3.6 on Linux a month ago, that's different experience too - patching source, requires old pango version. This setup suits me. Would it be interesting to have make dependencies as they were in Firefox 3.6 days? Absolutely. Does it drug Linux back? No, this case is minor. Same with old binaries. Anyone who cares enough can find or create such distro. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWJUphbYnpg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWJUphbYnpg [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co6FePZoNgE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co6FePZoNgE [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XVHA4l4Zrc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XVHA4l4Zrc

tsar9x 6y ago
> 1. Yay! With web I do not care as much about software, I am free to use Linux. This. Web and electron apps is the greatest thing that happened to "linux desktop". I know that they sucks and are slow, but without it I would not be able to use linux for work.
- deleted 6y ago

MaxBarraclough 6y ago

I'm unable to reply to 29athrowaway so I'll post this at the top level: Regarding backward compatibility (discussed around 32:00 in the video), do solutions like AppImage and Flatpak work for the examples he shows (the three proprietary games that were ported to Linux)?

Avamander 6y ago

I already disagree with the first reason. Poor backwards compatibility is a good thing, it does not let tech debt to accumulate too much. AppImage and containers are just for hiding that tech debt.

felixguendling 6y ago
I don't think that the main purpose of AppImage and containers is to hide technical debt. Being able to package an application 1x to run on many Linux distributions is a huge plus - notably if you don't want to waste resources supporting Ubuntu, RHEL, Gentoo, Arch, etc. by maintaing a separate package for each and every Linux package manager out there. The same is true for Docker: having a consistent environment is just very useful.
- Avamander 6y ago
  > I don't think that the main purpose of AppImage and containers is to hide technical debt. It might not be the main advertised purpose, but it's the result. Why bother updating some dependency when you can simply not? It makes sense not to, things could break.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
    > Why bother updating some dependency when you can simply not? [derp]
    - Avamander 6y ago
      You just repeated what I said. I answered that question.
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
        You're right, my bad. However, I think "things could break" is ultimately a worse evil than "it might have vulnerabilities". This seems to be the main point of disagreement.

tux3 6y ago

About the systemd logo, the weird rewind symbol in brackets, I think it's meant to be the [ OK] that linux (used to) print on boot for every line. Someone correct me if I'm wrong!

floo 6y ago
Exactly: https://brand.systemd.io/ https://brand.systemd.io/ Baffling how he didn't manage to find that on google.

Avamander 6y ago

In my opinion, this list is much much better: https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.t...

Icyphox 6y ago
You clearly don't understand Linux Sucks.
- Avamander 6y ago
  Do illuminate all of us, or do you just dislike the article I linked?
itvision 6y ago
There's some serious work put into it.
ArchD 6y ago
What a dose of reality for anyone yearning for Linux desktop to succeed. I use Linux at work and at home because of the configurability and security and because our servers run Linux but I absolutely do not enjoy tinkering around when things don't work. Although I can usually figure out a way or workaround, it's such a waste of time and life is short. I wouldn't mind paying as much for a Linux distro that just works as I would for Windows 10, or even double. But one can only dream. I've filed and commented on quite a few bugs only to have them ignored. The paid support for Ubuntu has a minimal order size of 10, so it's not really an option especially since I don't know how well it works. I wonder how big the market is for a paid Linux distro that just works. Given the general user-unfriendliness of Linux desktop, I can see why so many people use Macbooks who work on Linux. Maybe the servers they work on run Linux. Can't really call the individuals 'dumb' though, like what the video does. At most the Linux 'organization' on the whole comprising these individuals, if there's such a thing, is 'dumb'.
- Avamander 6y ago
  > I wouldn't mind paying as much for a Linux distro that just works as I would for Windows 10, or even double. But one can only dream. Well, noone would stop us from donating that money. I'd personally like a Patreon-like system, if people donate enough they'll get better service, they reach some threshold, someone could be hired. Though it probably has a lot of nuances and would take a few years minimum to have a somewhat working system. I'd really like to see an experiment like that.

azangru 6y ago

Guys, looking through the comments, I am afraid you are being way too serious. Bryan Lunduke has been giving Linux Sucks talks at LinuxFest NorthWest for many years; they are intended as humorous and good fun.

AshamedCaptain 6y ago
Same thing happens every year.
itvision 6y ago
Didn't he promise a few years ago that he'd stop releasing this video?
- kees99 6y ago
  He'll probably stop once we had a year of Linux on desktop.

lerax 6y ago

Brian makes me laugh everytime. Although the humorous critics that he do, almost point he raises there is an underlying truth on it. Linux Sucks not entirely, but some parts sucks so hard. I use Linux daily for almost ten years, and oh hell, it's pretty much better than Windows, but there is no way to deny the problems on it. But Linux is getting better! <3

gridlockd 6y ago
I think Linux is getting worse, but Windows and Mac OS are getting worse faster, so it feels like progress.
- em-bee 6y ago
  walking backwards, just slower? ;-)
  - fargle 6y ago
    sucks so bad it's losing the race to the bottom...
- lerax 6y ago
  That is sad and wish it could be a joke. But there are days I think the same... today I cannot not even run zsnes without problems on most of distros (Arch/Ubuntu/Etc). Linux backward compatibility it's so terrible.
  - weare138 6y ago
    But this isn't just a Linux problem though. Backwards compatibility sucks on Windows and MacOS too. At least Windows tries to give you some janky backwards compatibility options, with questionable results. MacOS just deprecates API's, drops support for older versions of MacOS and tells their users to go buy new stuff.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago

fbn79 6y ago

I think was Churchill that said "Linux is the worst form of operating system, except for all the others."

gridlockd 6y ago
...in the alternative history timeline where Churchill was the communist and Stalin the tory.
- hackeraccount 6y ago
  Churchill as he was would fit right into Linux. It's a combination of love of the old, tried and true with desperate experimentation that would appeal to his nature. Stalin? Victory at any cost with no thought to the means to reach that end? Hurd? Just saying.

talkingtab 6y ago

Click bait headline. Why is this kind of sensationalist title allowed on HN? edit: I don't object to the content, but the headline.

MaxBarraclough 6y ago
I'm not sure I'd call it 'clickbait' exactly. The title works well as an intentionally irreverent name for a well intentioned series by someone who is clearly very serious about Linux. Not an ideal fit as a Hacker News title though.
chris_wot 6y ago
No, no it's not. That is literally the talk he has done for many, many years.
- talkingtab 6y ago
  I understand the video is worthwhile. What I object to is the title on the post. "The linux sucks website has a good video" would be a great title, for example. As it stands, it panders to those of us who like linux and those of us who don't like linux. The title appeals to the worst in us. To be clear I do not object to the content, but I find the title to be divisive click bait.
  - chris_wot 6y ago
    That’s the name of the talk. The humerous talk.

itvision 6y ago

Linux is not winning on mobile in any shape or form. All mobile vendors use a highly-customized Linux kernel which has nothing to do with mainline and aside from the kernel, there's not much to write home about. So, maybe Bryan could have been a little bit more honest from the get go.

zozbot234 6y ago
> Linux is not winning on mobile in any shape or form. All mobile vendors use a highly-customized Linux kernel which has nothing to do with mainline That's not a "Linux on mobile" problem; it's a "Linux on anything embedded" problem, and steps are being taken to address it. You can run a close-to-mainline kernel already on some devices, it's just not the default. And work is ongoing to also port common non-mobile Linux userland setups to mobile, so that the same stack will eventually be useful for both. A lot of non-trivial work is involved.
- itvision 6y ago
  This will always be hamstrung by the lack of stable APIs - the issue which Google is so fed up with, they are in a process of writing their own microkernel, zircon. You might have noticed that Android phones are supported at most for three years - that's because HW vendors refuse to maintain their drivers compatibility with lots of different kernel versions - it's expensive and takes a lot of work. Once you have stable kernel APIs - you can write a driver once and forget about it for eternity.
  - zozbot234 6y ago
    Not a problem if the drivers are written to be easy to forward port. But that's not the approach that embedded BSP's generally take.
    - itvision 6y ago
      Again you offer people to work/invest more just to comply with Linux for very dubious benefits if any. This is not how businesses operate.

maxfromua 6y ago

"Arch users are vegans of the Linux world" - excellent comparison :)

tinnet 6y ago

As much as i like lunduke usually, i find it a bit unreflected to just say "we are stupid for banning our founders" without acknowledging anything they might have done wrong. I do agree that the pitchforks approach to public disagreements should not be our (or anybodies) default. But "leave our founders alone" is not a policy I'd personally subscribe too either. Also vaguely poking fun at therapy as if it was a punishment for something is just plain immature.

hs86 6y ago

One of his main complaints is "People who promote Linux, don't run Linux" and he specifically focuses on those who hold Linux-related talks at conferences on devices that don't run Linux on the desktop. Can you look at https://www.linuxfoundation.org/membership/members/ https://www.linuxfoundation.org/membership/members/ and easily point out those companies, that have a crucial business stake on Linux on the desktop? I can't. Most people, who are paid to work on Linux and its surrounding ecosystem, are working for companies that are interested on Linux on servers / the cloud and I don't think that it is fair to criticize them for not joining the idealistic movement of bringing Linux onto more desktops.

kerny 6y ago
When you see majority of consultants from the biggest Linux company (that also focuses on desktop Linux) using Macs for their work, you know that Linux on desktops won't happen anytime soon.

2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago

This is the first Linux Sucks that I have seen and although it's humorous it doesn't seem like satire. The issues he humorously points out are real issues with the Linux desktop today. I've been saying for a long time that one of the beauties of Linux is that anyone and everyone can do their own thing but that can also be a weakness. You have thousands of incredible talented developers doing their own thing. If you piss off some of the talent on your own projects they'll leave and do their own thing. That's beautiful in a way but it does weaken the Linux desktop as a whole. A benevolent dictator / vision is counterintuitive to the OSS spirit but it's priceless IMO.

sergeykish 6y ago
That's scary idea. As a Linux user I am a refugee from Windows. Expat now. They have dictators there, they've got resources, they switch development tools one after another. But somehow they failed. I knew nothing else but I could not stand that anymore. So I switched and found my promised land, my distribution, my community. That was 12 years ago. I believe each distribution, each application starts from someone with vision. People flock if they like it. Top down approach usually harms - pulse audio and systemd community split still unresolved. > my view of history says that mistakes made by a leader (or made in a leader's name) are amplified by the numbers who follow without question. Frank Herbert on Dune

mattrick 6y ago

In regards to search interest, I have a feeling that specific distributions (specifically "Ubuntu") have replaced the use of "Linux" in Google searches.

floriol 6y ago

I kind of like this guy, as in he is funny. But seeing the previous linux sucks videos as well, I must say that he most definitely don't have a too deep knowledge of linux - and it is kind of mean to call Linux people dumb who advocate for flatpak over appimage, especially that he don't really understand the problem at hand. (though imo nix is the only one solving the problem properly)