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This is completely cultural. I had a manager that I didn't meet in person for over a year and he was constantly sharing stuff like this with me, frequently mult

This is completely cultural. I had a manager that I didn't meet in person for over a year and he was constantly sharing stuff like this with me, frequently multiple times a day. As the sibling points out, if you aren't speaking with your manager weekly, or really almost daily, then something is very wrong.

MattGaiser 6y ago
Fair, it is going to depend on the boss and how your office interactions were before everything went remote. > if you aren't speaking with your manager weekly, or really almost daily, then something is very wrong. I am someone who likes a lot of autonomy. In-office, beyond my Scrum team, I am otherwise trusted to deliver what I need to deliver. That leads to few check-ins and mostly social banter with my boss as I will be in touch if I require anything. No news means all is well. It is just that remote removes most of the social banter and problems don't pop up for weeks.
- 52-6F-62 6y ago
  There are alternatives. For instance my smaller team has a very brief daily stand up now in a video call each morning. Our larger department has a Monday check-in and a Friday check-in wherein our boss's boss speaks to each one of us—checks in with how we're doing, whether we need anything, if we're stuck or whatever, and also raises questions to us that have come up in their own work. That is often mixed with more congenial banter and chats. Sometimes we throw in a game of Jackbox or something. My own team has taken to at least a round of something like Counter Strike for the last hour of the day each week. Sometimes almost every day depending on our work load. Combined with Slack my immediate manager and higher-level bosses are as reachable as ever. I'm sure once things can safely open up again there will almost immediately be some kind of meet up for drinks and whatever because of course that can't quite be replaced, but I don't think being remote most of the time has to be such a social handicap.
lalos 6y ago
When does the line blur and it becomes micro-managing if speaking daily?
- ericlewis 6y ago
  just say good morning?
- cddotdotslash 6y ago
  "Speaking" doesn't imply "managing" in a negative sense. It's simply a medium to convey information. Is it micro managing to see a direct report in the hallway or at lunch and casually say "Hey, Alice was saying that we could really use a new X, what do you think about that?" That level of discussion would very rarely occur over Slack or during a scheduled 1:1.
  - RHSeeger 6y ago
    > "Hey, Alice was saying that we could really use a new X, what do you think about that?" That level of discussion would very rarely occur over Slack Out of curiosity, why? I have this kind of discussion in Slack fairly often, sometimes in a (smaller) channel, sometimes in direct messages (occasionally with >2 people in in). A quick conversation about an idea, where people can respond as time permits, seems fairly optimal for Slack.
- MattGaiser 6y ago
  We could speak daily and not have it be micromanagement. There is just not anything to speak about most days. We did good morning in the chat for a while, but that just died after the first few weeks.
- chc 6y ago
  Micromanagement isn't about frequency of contact so much as the amount of control the worker has over their work. The biggest micromanager I ever worked for would forget I existed for days or a week at a time, only to come in tell me to throw out hours of work and do very specific, arbitrary things instead because he just liked it better a different way. The most hands-off boss I've ever had would drop by for a chat almost every day, but mostly just to get thoughts on overall direction and discuss ideas he was mulling.
cosmodisk 6y ago
If I need to speak to everyone in my team daily or even weekly,it means the whole thing isn't working and it would fall apart as soon as I walk through the door. I do trust people in what they do and I don't micromanage. I'm always available if anyone needs help or any kind of support or advice,but it doesn't mean I'd walk around daily asking how's work every day. Again, this depends on a role as well,as for instance, I do spend a lot of time discussing technical aspects with the business analyst. [Edit] The above applies to office environment,where I could see all my team in one place and there were lots of 'hints' that could tell whether I need to have a chst with someone: difficult call, challenging situation, too much work,issues at home and etc.All this is almost invisible when working remotely. Casual calls are necessary to check on people and to make sure they are fine.
cl0rkster 6y ago
I agree completely. Reading these responses, there's a lot of negativity to communicating with your manager. While I've been in times that I completely understand this, I chose my latest job purely on manager. It pays less and I couldn't be happier. He was innovative in using a shared Google doc that gets updated with tasks, goals, and progress by both of us daily. We meet officially on a schedule once a week, but often chat in the interim. Personally, I use the Google doc as my running, living Todo list. It helps keeps thoughts organized, and my manager sees a lot more than he ever could in a daily stand up. Sometimes, here's even able to proactively assist. Which, if you work hard, is an excellent thing. My manager and I would never hang out as friends, but we're both fascinated by technology and business culture and speak on it often. Worry more about positive relationship than specific method, I'd say. And if you hate your manager, job search on primarily that criteria and take a job your want with enthusiasm even if it pays less. You can't quantify peace in dollars.
- ryanwaggoner 6y ago
  I know I’m asking a lot, but could you share more about this google doc? How is it organized, do you both edit it, do you use comments, etc?
  - antipaul 6y ago
    Not OP. I use it with my manager to asynchroneously share updates and todos. It's in reverse chronological order, with a big heading for each weekly 1-1. We both write directly in the doc, and tag each other with comments for updates. An extreme of this, is that some teams (was it Netflix?) basically use google docs as project trackers. The project is described in the google doc, and you talk about it via comments - whenever you want, and as a replacement for meetings (who doesn't love getting rid of meetings?) In general, the idea with a gDoc is of a central repository of useful knowledge, an improvment over searching through chat messages and endless meetings.
    - ryanwaggoner 6y ago
      I appreciate it, thanks!
patcon 6y ago
This is def speculation on my part, but I've got a hunch that these "good manager" types often learn this wonderful communication style from working with ppl in-person -- high touch communication spaces are where ppl learn and hone those skills that they then bring into digital spaces with such effectiveness
- WWLink 6y ago
  I don't want my coworkers touching me. :P

MattGaiser 6y ago

Fair, it is going to depend on the boss and how your office interactions were before everything went remote. > if you aren't speaking with your manager weekly, or really almost daily, then something is very wrong. I am someone who likes a lot of autonomy. In-office, beyond my Scrum team, I am otherwise trusted to deliver what I need to deliver. That leads to few check-ins and mostly social banter with my boss as I will be in touch if I require anything. No news means all is well. It is just that remote removes most of the social banter and problems don't pop up for weeks.

52-6F-62 6y ago
There are alternatives. For instance my smaller team has a very brief daily stand up now in a video call each morning. Our larger department has a Monday check-in and a Friday check-in wherein our boss's boss speaks to each one of us—checks in with how we're doing, whether we need anything, if we're stuck or whatever, and also raises questions to us that have come up in their own work. That is often mixed with more congenial banter and chats. Sometimes we throw in a game of Jackbox or something. My own team has taken to at least a round of something like Counter Strike for the last hour of the day each week. Sometimes almost every day depending on our work load. Combined with Slack my immediate manager and higher-level bosses are as reachable as ever. I'm sure once things can safely open up again there will almost immediately be some kind of meet up for drinks and whatever because of course that can't quite be replaced, but I don't think being remote most of the time has to be such a social handicap.

lalos 6y ago

When does the line blur and it becomes micro-managing if speaking daily?

ericlewis 6y ago
just say good morning?
cddotdotslash 6y ago
"Speaking" doesn't imply "managing" in a negative sense. It's simply a medium to convey information. Is it micro managing to see a direct report in the hallway or at lunch and casually say "Hey, Alice was saying that we could really use a new X, what do you think about that?" That level of discussion would very rarely occur over Slack or during a scheduled 1:1.
- RHSeeger 6y ago
  > "Hey, Alice was saying that we could really use a new X, what do you think about that?" That level of discussion would very rarely occur over Slack Out of curiosity, why? I have this kind of discussion in Slack fairly often, sometimes in a (smaller) channel, sometimes in direct messages (occasionally with >2 people in in). A quick conversation about an idea, where people can respond as time permits, seems fairly optimal for Slack.
MattGaiser 6y ago
We could speak daily and not have it be micromanagement. There is just not anything to speak about most days. We did good morning in the chat for a while, but that just died after the first few weeks.
chc 6y ago
Micromanagement isn't about frequency of contact so much as the amount of control the worker has over their work. The biggest micromanager I ever worked for would forget I existed for days or a week at a time, only to come in tell me to throw out hours of work and do very specific, arbitrary things instead because he just liked it better a different way. The most hands-off boss I've ever had would drop by for a chat almost every day, but mostly just to get thoughts on overall direction and discuss ideas he was mulling.

cosmodisk 6y ago

If I need to speak to everyone in my team daily or even weekly,it means the whole thing isn't working and it would fall apart as soon as I walk through the door. I do trust people in what they do and I don't micromanage. I'm always available if anyone needs help or any kind of support or advice,but it doesn't mean I'd walk around daily asking how's work every day. Again, this depends on a role as well,as for instance, I do spend a lot of time discussing technical aspects with the business analyst. [Edit] The above applies to office environment,where I could see all my team in one place and there were lots of 'hints' that could tell whether I need to have a chst with someone: difficult call, challenging situation, too much work,issues at home and etc.All this is almost invisible when working remotely. Casual calls are necessary to check on people and to make sure they are fine.

cl0rkster 6y ago

I agree completely. Reading these responses, there's a lot of negativity to communicating with your manager. While I've been in times that I completely understand this, I chose my latest job purely on manager. It pays less and I couldn't be happier. He was innovative in using a shared Google doc that gets updated with tasks, goals, and progress by both of us daily. We meet officially on a schedule once a week, but often chat in the interim. Personally, I use the Google doc as my running, living Todo list. It helps keeps thoughts organized, and my manager sees a lot more than he ever could in a daily stand up. Sometimes, here's even able to proactively assist. Which, if you work hard, is an excellent thing. My manager and I would never hang out as friends, but we're both fascinated by technology and business culture and speak on it often. Worry more about positive relationship than specific method, I'd say. And if you hate your manager, job search on primarily that criteria and take a job your want with enthusiasm even if it pays less. You can't quantify peace in dollars.

ryanwaggoner 6y ago
I know I’m asking a lot, but could you share more about this google doc? How is it organized, do you both edit it, do you use comments, etc?
- antipaul 6y ago
  Not OP. I use it with my manager to asynchroneously share updates and todos. It's in reverse chronological order, with a big heading for each weekly 1-1. We both write directly in the doc, and tag each other with comments for updates. An extreme of this, is that some teams (was it Netflix?) basically use google docs as project trackers. The project is described in the google doc, and you talk about it via comments - whenever you want, and as a replacement for meetings (who doesn't love getting rid of meetings?) In general, the idea with a gDoc is of a central repository of useful knowledge, an improvment over searching through chat messages and endless meetings.
  - ryanwaggoner 6y ago
    I appreciate it, thanks!

patcon 6y ago

This is def speculation on my part, but I've got a hunch that these "good manager" types often learn this wonderful communication style from working with ppl in-person -- high touch communication spaces are where ppl learn and hone those skills that they then bring into digital spaces with such effectiveness

WWLink 6y ago
I don't want my coworkers touching me. :P