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See also a dubiously useful but very aesthetic "control room for the economy" in early 70's Chile: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Cybersyn https://en.wik

See also a dubiously useful but very aesthetic "control room for the economy" in early 70's Chile: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Cybersyn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Cybersyn

ceejayoz 6y ago
> After the CIA-backed military coup on September 11, 1973, Cybersyn was abandoned and the operations room was destroyed. I do wish we'd had a chance to see how well it worked.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- eigenvalue 6y ago
  You can see from this chart that the entire economic program of which Cybersyn was a part was more akin to sabotage than anything helpful: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Chile-the-real-wage-1967-1977_with_lines.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Chile-th...
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    Sabotage is probably the correct term. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_intervention_in_Chile#Allende_presidency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_intervention_in_...
  - p_l 6y ago
    It was used to successfully navigate strikes, and the general idea was more decentralized than typical system these days.
  - X6S1x6Okd1st 6y ago
    Nixon also asked the CIA to "make the economy scream". It's really unfortunate that most experiment in central planning were also complicated by the world's super power at the time trying to ensure that the experiment failed. Not to mention that their key export (copper) price crashed during those years. Not to say that there wouldn't have been bad economic outcomes here otherwise, but it's clear that they were going up against the CIA.
- gnarbarian 6y ago
  Spoiler alert: centrally planned economies never work.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    It's not unreasonable to hypothesize that a certain level of technology could make one work. Cybersyn being strangled in the crib by the CIA isn't really good evidence in either direction.
  - brokenmachine 6y ago
    Capitalism never stops working.
  - pbhjpbhj 6y ago
    Can you expand on that, or give references/examples?
  - p_l 6y ago
    Spoiler alert - most corporations are centrally planned. In fact, the system design behind Cybersyn is closer to decentralized systems like Toyota Production System rather than centralized approaches exemplified in typical American corporations. The whole point of cybersyn was that control loops were supposed t be established at multiple levels from bottom up, with higher levels interacting only when required for example to handle cooperation between multiple entities.
andrepd 6y ago
>dubiously useful The US made sure that doubt was never cleared. Shame, it looked decades ahead of its time, essentially internet + machine learning to dynamically allocate resources and diagnose problems. Essentially what amazon and other big enterprises do today, so... Plus it had a socialist bent, aiming to include workers in that real time decision making process.
- kingkawn 6y ago
  Which at the time was condemned as signs of a command economy, but now is practiced en masse but all major corporations and governments
  - iguy 6y ago
    The problem Amazon is solving also involves a lot of data, that is true. But it has lots and lots of price information to go on, both prices people are willing to pay for various goods at various times & places, and prices at which suppliers stop selling. That's what command economies didn't have, and it's why they didn't work. That was the criticism.
    - kingkawn 6y ago
      That was the literal purpose of this control room
fpoling 6y ago
Scott Locklin has a nice article about it, https://wordpress.com/read/blogs/6936594/posts/2648 https://wordpress.com/read/blogs/6936594/posts/2648
bmitc 6y ago
Thanks for introducing me to Stafford Beer.
basicplus2 6y ago
And of course its always worth mentioning the MONIAC.. (Monetary National Income Analogue Computer) also known as the Phillips Hydraulic Computer https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MONIAC https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MONIAC https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rAZavOcEnLg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rAZavOcEnLg
rootbear 6y ago
I love that room. It would be right at home on the original starship Enterprise.

See also a dubiously useful but very aesthetic "control room for the economy" in early 70's Chile: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Cybersyn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Cybersyn

ceejayoz 6y ago

> After the CIA-backed military coup on September 11, 1973, Cybersyn was abandoned and the operations room was destroyed. I do wish we'd had a chance to see how well it worked.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
eigenvalue 6y ago
You can see from this chart that the entire economic program of which Cybersyn was a part was more akin to sabotage than anything helpful: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Chile-the-real-wage-1967-1977_with_lines.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Chile-th...
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  Sabotage is probably the correct term. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_intervention_in_Chile#Allende_presidency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_intervention_in_...
- p_l 6y ago
  It was used to successfully navigate strikes, and the general idea was more decentralized than typical system these days.
- X6S1x6Okd1st 6y ago
  Nixon also asked the CIA to "make the economy scream". It's really unfortunate that most experiment in central planning were also complicated by the world's super power at the time trying to ensure that the experiment failed. Not to mention that their key export (copper) price crashed during those years. Not to say that there wouldn't have been bad economic outcomes here otherwise, but it's clear that they were going up against the CIA.
gnarbarian 6y ago
Spoiler alert: centrally planned economies never work.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  It's not unreasonable to hypothesize that a certain level of technology could make one work. Cybersyn being strangled in the crib by the CIA isn't really good evidence in either direction.
- brokenmachine 6y ago
  Capitalism never stops working.
- pbhjpbhj 6y ago
  Can you expand on that, or give references/examples?
- p_l 6y ago
  Spoiler alert - most corporations are centrally planned. In fact, the system design behind Cybersyn is closer to decentralized systems like Toyota Production System rather than centralized approaches exemplified in typical American corporations. The whole point of cybersyn was that control loops were supposed t be established at multiple levels from bottom up, with higher levels interacting only when required for example to handle cooperation between multiple entities.

andrepd 6y ago

>dubiously useful The US made sure that doubt was never cleared. Shame, it looked decades ahead of its time, essentially internet + machine learning to dynamically allocate resources and diagnose problems. Essentially what amazon and other big enterprises do today, so... Plus it had a socialist bent, aiming to include workers in that real time decision making process.

kingkawn 6y ago
Which at the time was condemned as signs of a command economy, but now is practiced en masse but all major corporations and governments
- iguy 6y ago
  The problem Amazon is solving also involves a lot of data, that is true. But it has lots and lots of price information to go on, both prices people are willing to pay for various goods at various times & places, and prices at which suppliers stop selling. That's what command economies didn't have, and it's why they didn't work. That was the criticism.
  - kingkawn 6y ago
    That was the literal purpose of this control room

fpoling 6y ago

Scott Locklin has a nice article about it, https://wordpress.com/read/blogs/6936594/posts/2648 https://wordpress.com/read/blogs/6936594/posts/2648

bmitc 6y ago

Thanks for introducing me to Stafford Beer.

basicplus2 6y ago

And of course its always worth mentioning the MONIAC.. (Monetary National Income Analogue Computer) also known as the Phillips Hydraulic Computer https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MONIAC https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MONIAC https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rAZavOcEnLg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rAZavOcEnLg

rootbear 6y ago

I love that room. It would be right at home on the original starship Enterprise.