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People with antibodies in their system should be allowed in everywhere without quarantine. The world really needs to stop self harming itself in order to prote

People with antibodies in their system should be allowed in everywhere without quarantine. The world really needs to stop self harming itself in order to protect a few boomers with power. It's very clear that the vast majority of people under 50 are not at risk of dying from covid19 in developed countries with adequate healthcare.

rrmm 6y ago
What doctors are finding out about the damage done to younger people who survive a serious brush with COVID is not reassuring. And the problems they experience will have an impact economically going forward.
- momokoko 6y ago
  This is a false narrative about serious issues with young people designed with the good intention to convince younger people to take precautions and not infect those at higher risk. It’s not actually a real problem outside of extreme outliers.
  - rrmm 6y ago
    Well yeah, besides the people it happens to, it doesn't happen at all.
- redis_mlc 6y ago
  > younger people who survive a serious brush with COVID only a small percentage get seriously ill, less than 5% across all age groups, with much less in the younger groups > And the problems they experience will have an impact economically going forward. The US economy at large is/has been destroyed, with up to half of the layoffs likely being permanent job losses. Europe has avoided mass layoffs, but the US is throwing tens of millions of its citizens under a bus. Lockdown has to end in weeks, not months.
  - rrmm 6y ago
    Europe has way better social safety net and labor rules. The way to have done this was to have a swift, effective response to the virus. We missed that. Now we are suffering the consequences. Other places did better and are not having to make as stark a choice.
  - redler 6y ago
    To the extent Europe has avoided American-style mass layoffs, it's been through direct and indirect government funding of continued employment. Businesses and employees are being kept warm — they're in the cache. In the US, this is anathema to the ruling party, so even trillion-dollar nominal relief legislation is structured to channel money with little oversight primarily to corporations, and erect preferential barriers to relief reaching states, local governments, and citizens' pockets. There is more concern in the US ruling party over the "moral hazard" of a fast-food worker in a big city on the edge of poverty receiving unemployment that exceeds their $8 per hour salary, than there is over shell companies thrown together in a week receiving $55M no-bid contracts to resell PPE seized by the federal government from the states [1]. [1] See Blue Flame Medical, Oren-Pines, Panthera, et al.
iwwr 6y ago
> People with antibodies in their system should be allowed in everywhere without quarantine. Creates pretty bad incentives if implemented (people will seek out the virus). Also relies on accuracy of individualized antibody tests.
- momokoko 6y ago
  Does it though? Chicken pox parties are still common. With literally millions of people in risk of dying and the apparent years until we’ll get to a vaccine, is it really that crazy to just spend two months intentionally infecting all low risk people to build up herd immunity? I know it’s unconventional but this is not a normal situation. If it was done in an orderly and controlled fashion, possibly even incorporating vaccine testing, this had the greatest odds of actually fixing the problem as a whole.
  - sb8244 6y ago
    It's not a cake walk illness for many that get it. The things I read seem to assume that you're completely fine if you aren't on death's door. But many of the first hand accounts from people that got it (and didn't go to the hospital) is the you absolutely do not want it. I'm going to err on the side of not getting it if given a choice.
    - momokoko 6y ago
      I’d rather get it intentionally and have a rough month than kill my parents. It’s not about the healthy ones like us.
      - sb8244 6y ago
        I'm not convinced that it would actually help that? What % of the population needs it to gain herd immunity? Will older people chip in to contribute or only younger people? What risk is there to younger people in general? We already know there are long lasting effects possible and deaths are still possible.
sb8244 6y ago
A lot of anecdotal stories I see from young people who have gotten it talk about it being the worst illness in their life and feeling close to needing hospital care. I think I'll pass. There is more than live/die in the end, such as maintaining quality of life. Regarding anti body tests, there was literally just a notice from the CDC saying the current tests can't really be trusted for policy decisions. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/lab/resources/antibody-tests-guidelines.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/lab/resources/anti...
- irq11 6y ago
  Anecodotes are not data. The numbers are absolutely clear: if you’re under the age of 50, you are overwhelmingly likely to have nothing more than a minor illness. Over 30% of infections are estimated to be asymptomatic. In New York, over 90% of hospitalizations (in addition to being heavily skewed to the elderly) involved one or more comorbidities. Nearly 90% had two or more. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scena... https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/nearly-all-nyc-area-covid-19-hospitalizations-had-comorbidities-67476/amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the-scientist.com/news-opin...
  - klmadfejno 6y ago
    This really shouldn't be downvoted. It's factually accurate that the vast majority of people who get this who are young and healthy do not experience even noteworthy symptoms. Stories of it being the worst illness people have ever experienced are likely to be cherrypicked, especially because most people who had the unremarkable symptoms won't even know it. Acknowledging that most cases are minor and not that bad doesn't mean you have to run down the entire path of doubting the virus' threat.
elliekelly 6y ago
While it’s tempting, from a safety perspective, to implement something like this I think a system of “haves” and “have nots” based entirely on medical records is a recipe for disaster in the long-term. I would rather wear a mask and socially distance so that everyone is equal and equally inconvenienced.
noarchy 6y ago
>The world really needs to stop self harming itself in order to protect a few boomers with power. While I would not phrase it so harshly, I understand the point. But looking further down the road: I worry that if we encounter a virus that truly does threaten the entire population, that we'll end up in a permanent, North Korea-like state. The precedent has been set for this by the Covid-19 experience.

rrmm 6y ago

What doctors are finding out about the damage done to younger people who survive a serious brush with COVID is not reassuring. And the problems they experience will have an impact economically going forward.

momokoko 6y ago
This is a false narrative about serious issues with young people designed with the good intention to convince younger people to take precautions and not infect those at higher risk. It’s not actually a real problem outside of extreme outliers.
- rrmm 6y ago
  Well yeah, besides the people it happens to, it doesn't happen at all.
redis_mlc 6y ago
> younger people who survive a serious brush with COVID only a small percentage get seriously ill, less than 5% across all age groups, with much less in the younger groups > And the problems they experience will have an impact economically going forward. The US economy at large is/has been destroyed, with up to half of the layoffs likely being permanent job losses. Europe has avoided mass layoffs, but the US is throwing tens of millions of its citizens under a bus. Lockdown has to end in weeks, not months.
- rrmm 6y ago
  Europe has way better social safety net and labor rules. The way to have done this was to have a swift, effective response to the virus. We missed that. Now we are suffering the consequences. Other places did better and are not having to make as stark a choice.
- redler 6y ago
  To the extent Europe has avoided American-style mass layoffs, it's been through direct and indirect government funding of continued employment. Businesses and employees are being kept warm — they're in the cache. In the US, this is anathema to the ruling party, so even trillion-dollar nominal relief legislation is structured to channel money with little oversight primarily to corporations, and erect preferential barriers to relief reaching states, local governments, and citizens' pockets. There is more concern in the US ruling party over the "moral hazard" of a fast-food worker in a big city on the edge of poverty receiving unemployment that exceeds their $8 per hour salary, than there is over shell companies thrown together in a week receiving $55M no-bid contracts to resell PPE seized by the federal government from the states [1]. [1] See Blue Flame Medical, Oren-Pines, Panthera, et al.

iwwr 6y ago

> People with antibodies in their system should be allowed in everywhere without quarantine. Creates pretty bad incentives if implemented (people will seek out the virus). Also relies on accuracy of individualized antibody tests.

momokoko 6y ago
Does it though? Chicken pox parties are still common. With literally millions of people in risk of dying and the apparent years until we’ll get to a vaccine, is it really that crazy to just spend two months intentionally infecting all low risk people to build up herd immunity? I know it’s unconventional but this is not a normal situation. If it was done in an orderly and controlled fashion, possibly even incorporating vaccine testing, this had the greatest odds of actually fixing the problem as a whole.
- sb8244 6y ago
  It's not a cake walk illness for many that get it. The things I read seem to assume that you're completely fine if you aren't on death's door. But many of the first hand accounts from people that got it (and didn't go to the hospital) is the you absolutely do not want it. I'm going to err on the side of not getting it if given a choice.
  - momokoko 6y ago
    I’d rather get it intentionally and have a rough month than kill my parents. It’s not about the healthy ones like us.
    - sb8244 6y ago
      I'm not convinced that it would actually help that? What % of the population needs it to gain herd immunity? Will older people chip in to contribute or only younger people? What risk is there to younger people in general? We already know there are long lasting effects possible and deaths are still possible.

sb8244 6y ago

A lot of anecdotal stories I see from young people who have gotten it talk about it being the worst illness in their life and feeling close to needing hospital care. I think I'll pass. There is more than live/die in the end, such as maintaining quality of life. Regarding anti body tests, there was literally just a notice from the CDC saying the current tests can't really be trusted for policy decisions. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/lab/resources/antibody-tests-guidelines.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/lab/resources/anti...

irq11 6y ago
Anecodotes are not data. The numbers are absolutely clear: if you’re under the age of 50, you are overwhelmingly likely to have nothing more than a minor illness. Over 30% of infections are estimated to be asymptomatic. In New York, over 90% of hospitalizations (in addition to being heavily skewed to the elderly) involved one or more comorbidities. Nearly 90% had two or more. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scena... https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/nearly-all-nyc-area-covid-19-hospitalizations-had-comorbidities-67476/amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the-scientist.com/news-opin...
- klmadfejno 6y ago
  This really shouldn't be downvoted. It's factually accurate that the vast majority of people who get this who are young and healthy do not experience even noteworthy symptoms. Stories of it being the worst illness people have ever experienced are likely to be cherrypicked, especially because most people who had the unremarkable symptoms won't even know it. Acknowledging that most cases are minor and not that bad doesn't mean you have to run down the entire path of doubting the virus' threat.

elliekelly 6y ago

While it’s tempting, from a safety perspective, to implement something like this I think a system of “haves” and “have nots” based entirely on medical records is a recipe for disaster in the long-term. I would rather wear a mask and socially distance so that everyone is equal and equally inconvenienced.

noarchy 6y ago

>The world really needs to stop self harming itself in order to protect a few boomers with power. While I would not phrase it so harshly, I understand the point. But looking further down the road: I worry that if we encounter a virus that truly does threaten the entire population, that we'll end up in a permanent, North Korea-like state. The precedent has been set for this by the Covid-19 experience.