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The problem is that my expenses have gone up because of remote working, and my employers have gone down. I don't even have a proper work-from-home office, so if
by spankalee 6y ago
The problem is that my expenses have gone up because of remote working, and my employers have gone down. I don't even have a proper work-from-home office, so if this is permeant I'll need to upgrade my home. I should be getting paid more, not less.
- MattGaiser 6y agoWhy have your expenses gone up? That's unusual.
- quickthrowman 6y agoPoor guy probably got fed for free at the office. I can’t think of any other reason, aside from more toilet paper usage at home.
- deadmutex 6y agoMaybe increased HVAC or other electricity costs? Let's give the benefit of the doubt here.
- x0x0 6y agoNeeding an office. Lots of people in sfbay and nyc structure their living situations around not spending lots of time at home. That has been upended. My company is allowing people to become permanently remote, if they want. However, after covid, if you go full or mostly remote, it will be a hard requirement to have a dedicated room for an office. That is probably incompatible with living in most of the bay area.
- MattGaiser 6y ago> it will be a hard requirement to have a dedicated room for an office. Is this something they can actually verify?
- x0x0 6y agoI doubt we're going to verify it. But if an employee can't provide a quiet, nice looking location for calls and reliable internet, they'll be fixing that situation or getting a different job. It's part of our planning on going remote in a way that is likely to succeed. iow, we're being explicit about requirements.
- dllthomas 6y agoThey could verify that you have a room that appears to be dedicated, especially during meetings and such. They probably can't reasonably verify that it remains dedicated outside of work hours, but they probably also don't care.
- x0x0 6y agoexactly
- ecnahc515 6y agoOr you know...a desk and monitors. A lot of people don't have their own workstation setup at home and are sitting on the couch using their laptop for 8 hours because they have nothing else.
- scarface74 6y agoMost software developers don’t have a desk and their own computer setup at home?
- MattGaiser 6y agoI have a software dev colleague who doesn't have a home computer. Surprising, but it happens.
- dllthomas 6y agoI have a personal laptop, but before this I didn't have a dedicated space for it.
- scarface74 6y agoTo be completely fair though, while I’ve always made sure I had a WFH setup. There are plenty of times where I wasn’t sick to the point I couldn’t work, but I thought I might be contagious and stayed home out of courtesy even when I was working somewhere that didn’t have a work from home policy. Also, some years my allergies and asthma flair up so bad I’m disgusting to be around. But, if I wasn’t using my personal laptop as a Plex Server, I probably wouldn’t have a personal computer set up at home. My wife and I use our iPads for all of our limited personal computing needs. If I break down and get an a NVidia Sheild, I might completely shut down my personal computer.
- karatestomp 6y agoIf it weren't necessary for remote work and the kids doing online school shit (happens even with regular school in session, so much is online now—basically another form of remote work) I'd probably not bother to have home Internet, let alone a good home computer workstation.
- anonymousab 6y agoAmenities provided at work are now used at home. From office supplies to snacks or other 'free' benefits that employees factored into their overall compensation. Then there are things like (increased) electricity costs, having to upgrade your home internet to sufficiently satisfy your work requirements (eg if you need to be downloading or uploading large files, or your company had stringent remote call quality requirements), etc. If you're someone whose commute was little or no expense, then these can be a notable new expenditures to budget around. They won't break the bank but they're worth thinking about.
- codingdave 6y agoMost of those are typically reimbursed when you work from home, including office furniture and equipment costs. I admit that snacks would be a new expense, but I'm having a hard time picturing a compensation package where free snacks even moves the dial on your income.
- AlotOfReading 6y agoMy electricity costs have increased significantly ($100+ per month) because I'm powering all of my work equipment and running the AC more as the weather hits triple digits. It's not much on a bay area salary, but that might be a 10-20% increase in expenses for someone in AZ.
- anonymousab 6y agoSometimes those things are reimbursed. For a lot of companies this switch has not been the same as hiring a remote employee - and thus the reimbursement has been varied. "Snacks" can include whole meals and quality food which is both a monetary and time benefit. It won't move the needle, but it's another thing on the list. I suspect companies will shake this out and factor it into compensation and reimbursement plans where relevant over the next few months, but it's fair to see it as a notable new set of expenses for some people.
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- rabidrat 6y agoI just bought a sit/stand desk, and an ergonomic chair. That's $2k+ I've paid directly for equipment that was previously provided. In addition, our utility bills have risen about 50% as now we're at home for 8 hours more per day. Extra heat (and soon A/C), water, electricity, etc. Also, my "play" room is now my work room. How much extra should I be paid for my work environment to be permanently visible at all times? It's starting to affect my psyche. Luckily I had a play room to begin with, so my bedroom didn't have to become my work room too. I would have even more trouble sleeping in that case.
- Antecedent 6y ago> How much extra should I be paid for my work environment to be permanently visible at all times? It's starting to affect my psyche. This is why people think millennials are wusses.
- ClumsyPilot 6y agoAh yes, brought to you by the same people who think climate change is a joke and millenials should take it on the chin. But force them to wear a mask or mandate recycling and the rightwing snowflakes have a meltdown. We get articles like 'recycling is slavery', 'social distancing is communist' and 'Churchill wouldnt wear a mask'. To him Nazi gas was some weak shit.
- psychometry 6y agoOk, but you could've spent less than $500 easily on a perfectly fine desk and chair. Lots of first world problems here.
- rabidrat 6y agoI'm 45 and have been working in the evenings at this "perfectly fine" desk and chair for 20 years now. However, it turns out that 12 hours a day this "perfectly fine" setup is already aggravating previously-identified ergonomics issues, which have previously been dealt with by standard office ergonomics setups. In fact that Aeron chair and sit/stand desk at the office was pitched to me as part of the total compensation package. I would not have been able to work there if they gave me a "perfectly fine" door to use as a desk with a $50 task chair. So yes, I think my employer should reimburse my office setup at home.
- emmp 6y agoThe only expenses that could have gone down are commuting costs, and I suppose new 'work' clothing. As someone who lives within walking distance of my office and rarely buys new clothing, I'm in the negative just without free coffee alone, let alone other amenities and increased costs at home.
- SenHeng 6y agoHere in Japan, sales of computers have gone up because a large number of people don’t actually own computers or have home internet. https://gigazine.net/news/20200414-pc-shipments-2020-q1/ https://gigazine.net/news/20200414-pc-shipments-2020-q1/
- meddlepal 6y agoYea but you're saving money on commute costs (gas, insurance, maintenance) and time... I'm not sure you're entitled to more money because you need a chair and a desk. Maybe could make an argument your internet connection should be paid for though.
- _fullpint 6y agoBut you can make the argument that your space is being used by your employer. Many contractors claim tax deductions based on their rent or mortgage due to the fact that a percentage their home is used for business.
- jschwartzi 6y agoWhen my employer offered to let me work remote he also offered to let me expense part of a larger apartment precisely because the job requires a large dedicated work space. I made it work in a 1br but it was tight.
- bcrosby95 6y agoNot an accountant, but I think if you use a home office for your employer's convenience, and you use it exclusively for business, you can apply a home office deduction to your taxes. Assuming you itemize your deductions rather than take the standard one. Again, not an accountant, not your accountant, etc.
- rabidrat 6y ago"exclusively for business" is the hard part. Unless you've chosen your home to include that dedicated work room. it's going to be difficult to have a room that you're not using for non-business.
- freeone3000 6y agoIt's >50% over the course of a year, so you do have some leeway, but you'd have to avoid, say, gaming in there on weekends, so it's not trivial.
- colinmhayes 6y agoYou don't get paid based off your expenses. You get paid the minimum your employer thinks they can pay to get someone who does the job well. I'm not disagreeing with you, but this argument will get you nowhere.
- benjohnson 6y agoThis is true! And there's a good side to the same equation - if your expenses are low, you should still charge market rates. (speaking from experience as someone who undercuts themselves a lot)
- vmception 6y agoIn Switzerland it is a valid argument and employers are now being told to cover a portion of their employees rent. So let's talk about how it can be a valid argument, instead.
- webdood90 6y agoYou do when the expenses are required to do your job. Employees expense computer equipment, cell phone bills, gas, car rentals, hotels, and more. I don't view this differently.
- rafiki6 6y agoWell a Swiss judge seems to disagree. https://twitter.com/JaneLytv/status/1265619406941499392 https://twitter.com/JaneLytv/status/1265619406941499392
- colinmhayes 6y agoThat's based off a swiss law that requires employers to reimburse required work related expenses. The us doesn't have that requirement, other than paying at least minimum wage after expenses. It looks like California does require reimbursement though, so you might have a case if you work there.
- Simulacra 6y agoSame with UBI
- pkaye 6y agoHave you tried asking your employer to get paid more?
- exclusiv 6y ago> I should be getting paid more, not less. Most firms will pay less for remote workers. It is a little odd given they save a decent amount of money, but most people save a lot of time by not having to commute and they like the flexibility so the rates for remote workers are lower.
- ericd 6y agoIt also potentially makes a local worker a lot more fungible with people who aren’t local.