6 ms·

So Trump is really good at the political game, for instance?

by nsgi 6y ago

fwr 6y ago
Is there a more powerful political position he could have?
- jeltz 6y ago
  Yes, he could be a president with reliable support from the senate and the house. But that said he still managed to reach very far.
  - ByteJockey 6y ago
    Is that an option these days? When was the last time that existed? 2010?
    - disgruntledphd2 6y ago
      It seems to me (as an outside observer), that this normally happens for the two years after a new President is elected. Normally they don't get 60 in the Senate though, which means that the system is working at intended (you need to stay consistently popular for 6+ years to start swinging the Senate).
  - mcv 6y ago
    He has extremely reliable support from the senate. They did everything they could to shield him from accountability during the impeachment process and prevented him from getting a fair trial. That's more than the senate has ever done for any other president.
Bootvis 6y ago
He did become President of the USA so I think the answer is yes.
- koheripbal 6y ago
  ...and he's been planning it since the 1980s, so yeah, it's hard to make the argument that he didn't play the game persistently and well.
Ma8ee 6y ago
I would say yes, if you define success in the political game as being elected to a high office. Most of us consider him an idiot, and in many way he certainly is. But he do knows who to get people to vote for him, which is what matters. He didn't fall into the precidency by accident or by being rich or well connected. He did what mattered to become elected (with a bit of help from Putin). Many smarter people with more money and better connections failed, see e.g. Bloomberg.
blackoil 6y ago
Yes, if you believe he is not good at political game, you don't understand the game.
jmeister 6y ago
Trump is a world-class salesman. And this skill is more about instinct than cerebral/deep thinking, which is why nerds “just don’t get it”. Check Scott Adams’ writing on Trump’s persuasion abilities.
- ggm 6y ago
  But he has conspicuously failed to sell to 50% of his nation. Obama was a consummate salesman too and occupied the middle. Do you really think a rich entitled Trump who inherited his millions out-sold the first black president of the USA? Trump sold to his own. Obama sold worldwide. Tony Blair is a consummate lier and fraud and he sold better than Trump. He has a post prime ministerial income based on selling. Once Trump leaves office, like Bibi the lawsuits are a mile thick in paperwork. He won't sell nearly as many books as Blair or Obama, except critiques which may not pay him royalties. I doubt if the miss universe comp wants him back either.
  - koheripbal 6y ago
    No one is making the argument that he's the best president ever, or even a good one. The point is that he became the President of the USA - he played the game very very well. It becomes more apparent when you see his videos on the subject from the 1980s - he was planning this move for decades.
    - ojnabieoot 6y ago
      A huge part of the problem with Donald Trump is how many Americans have decided that he’s good at “playing the game” of winning is elections. But the 2016 presidential election was flagrantly stolen, and the entire national GOP was complicit. Even if you’re not willing to admit it was stolen it obviously had huge legitimacy problems because Trump significantly lost the popular vote. But instead of facing this reality of democratic backsliding, people who otherwise know better have decided that the wily salesman Donald Trump once again pulled a fast one on us. (c.f. Bill Gates being seen as a tech genius rather than the reality that he’s just a vicious thug)
    - 6y ago
gwd 6y ago
I think Trump is a good example of how luck and skill interact. He absolutely has a talent for selling his ideas to a big chunk of people. I don't think he would have actually become president though, if it weren't for a number of things out of his control: if Putin hadn't been trying to stir up discord, if there'd been a compelling Republican alternative, if James Comey hadn't made that last-minute announcement reminding everyone of the emails again.
jawns 6y ago
You could think of it as, "Trump is good enough at the game to get elected president." You could also think of it as, "Those with enough money and power to influence who gets elected president are good enough at the game to get Trump elected president."
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
blaser-waffle 6y ago
He sure as hell isn't, but has some understanding of marketing, and access to people and resources (Bannon, Russian propaganda, Republican playmakers via Pence) that could push him over the edge. How much of his agenda is really his, anyway? He's a punching bag to distract everyone while the real power players get their way.
gxon 6y ago
Absolutely. But the game we use to choose a president does not seem to be at all related to the actual job of president.

So Trump is really good at the political game, for instance?

by nsgi 6y ago

So Trump is really good at the political game, for instance?

fwr 6y ago

Is there a more powerful political position he could have?

jeltz 6y ago
Yes, he could be a president with reliable support from the senate and the house. But that said he still managed to reach very far.
- ByteJockey 6y ago
  Is that an option these days? When was the last time that existed? 2010?
  - disgruntledphd2 6y ago
    It seems to me (as an outside observer), that this normally happens for the two years after a new President is elected. Normally they don't get 60 in the Senate though, which means that the system is working at intended (you need to stay consistently popular for 6+ years to start swinging the Senate).
- mcv 6y ago
  He has extremely reliable support from the senate. They did everything they could to shield him from accountability during the impeachment process and prevented him from getting a fair trial. That's more than the senate has ever done for any other president.

Bootvis 6y ago

He did become President of the USA so I think the answer is yes.

koheripbal 6y ago
...and he's been planning it since the 1980s, so yeah, it's hard to make the argument that he didn't play the game persistently and well.

Ma8ee 6y ago

I would say yes, if you define success in the political game as being elected to a high office. Most of us consider him an idiot, and in many way he certainly is. But he do knows who to get people to vote for him, which is what matters. He didn't fall into the precidency by accident or by being rich or well connected. He did what mattered to become elected (with a bit of help from Putin). Many smarter people with more money and better connections failed, see e.g. Bloomberg.

blackoil 6y ago

Yes, if you believe he is not good at political game, you don't understand the game.

jmeister 6y ago

Trump is a world-class salesman. And this skill is more about instinct than cerebral/deep thinking, which is why nerds “just don’t get it”. Check Scott Adams’ writing on Trump’s persuasion abilities.

ggm 6y ago
But he has conspicuously failed to sell to 50% of his nation. Obama was a consummate salesman too and occupied the middle. Do you really think a rich entitled Trump who inherited his millions out-sold the first black president of the USA? Trump sold to his own. Obama sold worldwide. Tony Blair is a consummate lier and fraud and he sold better than Trump. He has a post prime ministerial income based on selling. Once Trump leaves office, like Bibi the lawsuits are a mile thick in paperwork. He won't sell nearly as many books as Blair or Obama, except critiques which may not pay him royalties. I doubt if the miss universe comp wants him back either.
- koheripbal 6y ago
  No one is making the argument that he's the best president ever, or even a good one. The point is that he became the President of the USA - he played the game very very well. It becomes more apparent when you see his videos on the subject from the 1980s - he was planning this move for decades.
  - ojnabieoot 6y ago
    A huge part of the problem with Donald Trump is how many Americans have decided that he’s good at “playing the game” of winning is elections. But the 2016 presidential election was flagrantly stolen, and the entire national GOP was complicit. Even if you’re not willing to admit it was stolen it obviously had huge legitimacy problems because Trump significantly lost the popular vote. But instead of facing this reality of democratic backsliding, people who otherwise know better have decided that the wily salesman Donald Trump once again pulled a fast one on us. (c.f. Bill Gates being seen as a tech genius rather than the reality that he’s just a vicious thug)
  - 6y ago

gwd 6y ago

I think Trump is a good example of how luck and skill interact. He absolutely has a talent for selling his ideas to a big chunk of people. I don't think he would have actually become president though, if it weren't for a number of things out of his control: if Putin hadn't been trying to stir up discord, if there'd been a compelling Republican alternative, if James Comey hadn't made that last-minute announcement reminding everyone of the emails again.

jawns 6y ago

You could think of it as, "Trump is good enough at the game to get elected president." You could also think of it as, "Those with enough money and power to influence who gets elected president are good enough at the game to get Trump elected president."

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

blaser-waffle 6y ago

He sure as hell isn't, but has some understanding of marketing, and access to people and resources (Bannon, Russian propaganda, Republican playmakers via Pence) that could push him over the edge. How much of his agenda is really his, anyway? He's a punching bag to distract everyone while the real power players get their way.

gxon 6y ago

Absolutely. But the game we use to choose a president does not seem to be at all related to the actual job of president.