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This may come off as condescending, but I'm honestly just curious. From the outside looking in, it seems as though you are paid to drink cool-aid and paint FB

This may come off as condescending, but I'm honestly just curious. From the outside looking in, it seems as though you are paid to drink cool-aid and paint FB in a positive light. How does one get to be in your position? What are the qualifications for your job?

guy_ro 6y ago
Fair enough, but I also get to see first-hand how decisions are made and how rigorous debates take place, so I have more faith in the process. We've got lots to do to improve transparency of how this stuff happens, because I know people care about it. One way we started a while ago is publishing minutes to one of our meetings where decisions on content policies get made. https://about.fb.com/news/2018/11/content-standards-forum-minutes/ https://about.fb.com/news/2018/11/content-standards-forum-mi... -- lots more to do!
- choppaface 6y ago
  Can you qualify what you mean by “rigorous” ? I think this is an important point of contention because Facebook is so accustomed to using data to justify decisions. Yet these ethical issues often either have no data and/or the consequences of Facebook’s actions impact users who are not on Facebook. Moreover, the data is not available to the public (despite the public generating the data) so the public can’t actually reproduce the warrant used internally at Facebook. This lack of reproducibility is why I think there’s so much friction around Facebook claiming their decisions are made with “rigor.” Thanks.
- BubRoss 6y ago
  You didn't answer either of his questions.
  - 1123581321 6y ago
    His work history is on LinkedIn. VP Integrity is essentially an executive product management role so qualifications would be along those lines. Edit: LinkedIn says he was an engineering manager, then took a series of roles culminating in a data startup that got him into Facebook in the current role.
    - evgen 6y ago
      'A data startup'? How very generous of you. He co-founded a spyware company that was bought by Facebook to discover what other companies/apps to buy or clone. You do not get to the position he has at Facebook by having either ethics or morals. Having seen this up close at Facebook HQ I can assure you that everyone at VP level or above there knows what they are doing, knows the long-term consequences, and simply does not care because the paycheck is far too large for simple ethics to enter into the discussion.
      - modamilk 6y ago
        Morality and strong ethics do not place a glass ceiling on anyone’s achievement. Arguably, consistently good ethics lead to more opportunites and better outcomes. The main issue here is people have different ideas of what is ethical. Disagreements arise when countries and increasingly companies exert power of people given to them by those same people. In my mind, the same problems existed before facebook and expecting facebook to solve them for everyone is rediculous. Even more rediculius is expecting everyone to accept facebook’s solutions.
      - 1123581321 6y ago
        Thank you for examining his career more closely.
pwdisswordfish2 6y ago
Remember that VPN app that Apple pulled from the app store, the one that Facebook was using to spy on users' internet usage to gain intel about potential competitors. When Facebook acquired the VPN app this guy came with the purchase. VP of Inegrity. Oh, the irony. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onavo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onavo Another commenter noticed this first but the comment is buried at the bottom of the thread. You have to enable showdead to see it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23319381 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23319381
- commoner 6y ago
  Facebook's "VP of Integrity" Guy Rosen (guy_ro) co-founded Onavo, a spyware company that Facebook acquired in 2013. Onavo's flagship app was Onavo Protect, a VPN service that Facebook used to monitor the activity of its competitors, including Snapchat. Facebook acquired WhatsApp and copied features from Houseparty based on the data it harvested from Onavo users. https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-new-copycats-how-facebook-squashes-competition-from-startups-1502293444 https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-new-copycats-how-facebook-s... Onavo Protect was removed from the App Store in 2018 for privacy violations, and from Google Play in 2019. Onavo then rebranded to Facebook Research and marketed itself through targeted ads to teenagers on Instagram and Snapchat. Apple revoked Facebook's developer certificate because Onavo was using it to bypass the App Store review process. Three U.S. senators (Richard Blumenthal, Ed Markey, and Mark Warner) criticized Facebook Research for harvesting data from children. Facebook Research was discontinued later that year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onavo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onavo Guy Rosen moved on to be Facebook's VP of Product Management. In 2019, he briefly adopted the "VP of Integrity" title when performing damage control for Facebook's live stream of the Christchurch mosque shootings, and then reverted back to VP of Product Management after he was called out on it. https://gizmodo.com/facebook-exec-gets-new-title-as-vp-of-integrity-for-les-1833487854 https://gizmodo.com/facebook-exec-gets-new-title-as-vp-of-in... The next time Facebook needs a public relations injection, it should consider using someone other than the co-founder of Onavo.
  - pwdisswordfish2 6y ago
    You just can't make this stuff up!
rajacombinator 6y ago
“Sheryl, I need a guy I can sacrifice next time SHTF. I’m not going to another congressional hearing.” “Let me make some calls.”
dr-detroit 6y ago
No soul and a background check performed by Russian intelligence

guy_ro 6y ago

Fair enough, but I also get to see first-hand how decisions are made and how rigorous debates take place, so I have more faith in the process. We've got lots to do to improve transparency of how this stuff happens, because I know people care about it. One way we started a while ago is publishing minutes to one of our meetings where decisions on content policies get made. https://about.fb.com/news/2018/11/content-standards-forum-minutes/ https://about.fb.com/news/2018/11/content-standards-forum-mi... -- lots more to do!

choppaface 6y ago
Can you qualify what you mean by “rigorous” ? I think this is an important point of contention because Facebook is so accustomed to using data to justify decisions. Yet these ethical issues often either have no data and/or the consequences of Facebook’s actions impact users who are not on Facebook. Moreover, the data is not available to the public (despite the public generating the data) so the public can’t actually reproduce the warrant used internally at Facebook. This lack of reproducibility is why I think there’s so much friction around Facebook claiming their decisions are made with “rigor.” Thanks.
BubRoss 6y ago
You didn't answer either of his questions.
- 1123581321 6y ago
  His work history is on LinkedIn. VP Integrity is essentially an executive product management role so qualifications would be along those lines. Edit: LinkedIn says he was an engineering manager, then took a series of roles culminating in a data startup that got him into Facebook in the current role.
  - evgen 6y ago
    'A data startup'? How very generous of you. He co-founded a spyware company that was bought by Facebook to discover what other companies/apps to buy or clone. You do not get to the position he has at Facebook by having either ethics or morals. Having seen this up close at Facebook HQ I can assure you that everyone at VP level or above there knows what they are doing, knows the long-term consequences, and simply does not care because the paycheck is far too large for simple ethics to enter into the discussion.
    - modamilk 6y ago
      Morality and strong ethics do not place a glass ceiling on anyone’s achievement. Arguably, consistently good ethics lead to more opportunites and better outcomes. The main issue here is people have different ideas of what is ethical. Disagreements arise when countries and increasingly companies exert power of people given to them by those same people. In my mind, the same problems existed before facebook and expecting facebook to solve them for everyone is rediculous. Even more rediculius is expecting everyone to accept facebook’s solutions.
    - 1123581321 6y ago
      Thank you for examining his career more closely.

pwdisswordfish2 6y ago

Remember that VPN app that Apple pulled from the app store, the one that Facebook was using to spy on users' internet usage to gain intel about potential competitors. When Facebook acquired the VPN app this guy came with the purchase. VP of Inegrity. Oh, the irony. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onavo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onavo Another commenter noticed this first but the comment is buried at the bottom of the thread. You have to enable showdead to see it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23319381 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23319381

commoner 6y ago
Facebook's "VP of Integrity" Guy Rosen (guy_ro) co-founded Onavo, a spyware company that Facebook acquired in 2013. Onavo's flagship app was Onavo Protect, a VPN service that Facebook used to monitor the activity of its competitors, including Snapchat. Facebook acquired WhatsApp and copied features from Houseparty based on the data it harvested from Onavo users. https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-new-copycats-how-facebook-squashes-competition-from-startups-1502293444 https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-new-copycats-how-facebook-s... Onavo Protect was removed from the App Store in 2018 for privacy violations, and from Google Play in 2019. Onavo then rebranded to Facebook Research and marketed itself through targeted ads to teenagers on Instagram and Snapchat. Apple revoked Facebook's developer certificate because Onavo was using it to bypass the App Store review process. Three U.S. senators (Richard Blumenthal, Ed Markey, and Mark Warner) criticized Facebook Research for harvesting data from children. Facebook Research was discontinued later that year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onavo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onavo Guy Rosen moved on to be Facebook's VP of Product Management. In 2019, he briefly adopted the "VP of Integrity" title when performing damage control for Facebook's live stream of the Christchurch mosque shootings, and then reverted back to VP of Product Management after he was called out on it. https://gizmodo.com/facebook-exec-gets-new-title-as-vp-of-integrity-for-les-1833487854 https://gizmodo.com/facebook-exec-gets-new-title-as-vp-of-in... The next time Facebook needs a public relations injection, it should consider using someone other than the co-founder of Onavo.
- pwdisswordfish2 6y ago
  You just can't make this stuff up!

rajacombinator 6y ago

“Sheryl, I need a guy I can sacrifice next time SHTF. I’m not going to another congressional hearing.” “Let me make some calls.”

dr-detroit 6y ago

No soul and a background check performed by Russian intelligence