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> lockdowns depriving Americans of their God-given freedom to attend pool parties and political conventions, regardless of the epidemiological data I think you

> lockdowns depriving Americans of their God-given freedom to attend pool parties and political conventions, regardless of the epidemiological data I think your interpretation of that perspective is as shallow as saying that the Boston Tea Party was just just a bunch of people mad that tea had gotten more expensive.

jupp0r 6y ago
The difference is motivation. Nobody profits from lockdowns in the narrow sense that Britain profited from restricting Americans rights. Lockdowns intention is to save peoples lives and allow for a less restrictive reopening later, by regaining the missed ability to do proper contact tracing.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  Lockdown proponents have consistently said that it's not about reopening later as such; it's about reopening safely, and we mustn't reopen at all if it's not safe.
  - rootusrootus 6y ago
    In my view, the two biggest factors driving lockdown resistance are 1) the pivot from 'flatten the curve' to 'lockdown until the virus is gone', and 2) the open-ended plans to ease the lockdown 'when it is safe' without defining that. It would be easier for people to endure the lockdown requirements if there were clear metrics, plans, and communication.
- jerf 6y ago
  I live closer to this sort of thing than the HN gestalt does. There are a handful of people who are indeed just upset about their freedoms in that sense, but they are a fringe. The vast majority of people concerned about the lockdown in real life are concerned about the costs greatly exceeding the benefits, about the lockdowns being used as an excuse to grab power by power-hungry politicians, beliefs that the people advocating endless lockdowns are the ones who still have jobs and aren't experiencing the costs themselves, and disbelief at how clumsy it is to apply the same policies in your large and diverse state to counties with single-digit numbers of cases total vs thousands of cases weekly. These are not my opinions; this is what I hear. I do not hear all that much about "muh freedoms". Dismissing all disagreement that way is not a path to understanding what is really going on out there. If you don't care about that because you're happy with your view of the world, fine, but don't whine when you get blindsided about what America really believes about things in November.
  - jawns 6y ago
    > There are a handful of people who are indeed just upset about their freedoms in that sense, but they are a fringe. I live in a blue state, but I am seeing SO MANY PEOPLE ignoring sensible, low-effort preventive guidelines, such as social distancing and wearing masks when in close contact with others. My best guess is that it's a mix of: 1. freedom / civil liberties / not wanting the government to tell them what to do, and 2. the shortsighted view that just because they're of an age unlikely to be hit hard by the virus, they shouldn't need to mildly inconvenience themselves to prevent the spread to more vulnerable populations.
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      I'm just not sure how I'm supposed to take social distancing guidelines seriously at this point. My state purports to have an order to stay at home, but as more and more businesses reopen, they've still offered no guidance on when it'll be permitted to see friends and family again. It seems increasingly clear that there's a hidden "unless you really want to" clause, and all of us who were strictly obeying the rules just got tricked.
    - jupp0r 6y ago
      "but I am seeing SO MANY PEOPLE ignoring sensible, low-effort preventive guidelines" That's selection bias, though. You don't see the vast majority of people barely going out.
  - jupp0r 6y ago
    What do you think will make people with opinions you quoted understand how the world actually works? I don't have a good answer to that. We see the same phenomenon with regards to populism in trade, immigration, etc. Sometimes people don't want to see the truth if it collides with their preconceptions. Doesn't help when leaders intentionally and constantly reinforce misinformation.

jupp0r 6y ago

The difference is motivation. Nobody profits from lockdowns in the narrow sense that Britain profited from restricting Americans rights. Lockdowns intention is to save peoples lives and allow for a less restrictive reopening later, by regaining the missed ability to do proper contact tracing.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
Lockdown proponents have consistently said that it's not about reopening later as such; it's about reopening safely, and we mustn't reopen at all if it's not safe.
- rootusrootus 6y ago
  In my view, the two biggest factors driving lockdown resistance are 1) the pivot from 'flatten the curve' to 'lockdown until the virus is gone', and 2) the open-ended plans to ease the lockdown 'when it is safe' without defining that. It would be easier for people to endure the lockdown requirements if there were clear metrics, plans, and communication.
jerf 6y ago
I live closer to this sort of thing than the HN gestalt does. There are a handful of people who are indeed just upset about their freedoms in that sense, but they are a fringe. The vast majority of people concerned about the lockdown in real life are concerned about the costs greatly exceeding the benefits, about the lockdowns being used as an excuse to grab power by power-hungry politicians, beliefs that the people advocating endless lockdowns are the ones who still have jobs and aren't experiencing the costs themselves, and disbelief at how clumsy it is to apply the same policies in your large and diverse state to counties with single-digit numbers of cases total vs thousands of cases weekly. These are not my opinions; this is what I hear. I do not hear all that much about "muh freedoms". Dismissing all disagreement that way is not a path to understanding what is really going on out there. If you don't care about that because you're happy with your view of the world, fine, but don't whine when you get blindsided about what America really believes about things in November.
- jawns 6y ago
  > There are a handful of people who are indeed just upset about their freedoms in that sense, but they are a fringe. I live in a blue state, but I am seeing SO MANY PEOPLE ignoring sensible, low-effort preventive guidelines, such as social distancing and wearing masks when in close contact with others. My best guess is that it's a mix of: 1. freedom / civil liberties / not wanting the government to tell them what to do, and 2. the shortsighted view that just because they're of an age unlikely to be hit hard by the virus, they shouldn't need to mildly inconvenience themselves to prevent the spread to more vulnerable populations.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    I'm just not sure how I'm supposed to take social distancing guidelines seriously at this point. My state purports to have an order to stay at home, but as more and more businesses reopen, they've still offered no guidance on when it'll be permitted to see friends and family again. It seems increasingly clear that there's a hidden "unless you really want to" clause, and all of us who were strictly obeying the rules just got tricked.
  - jupp0r 6y ago
    "but I am seeing SO MANY PEOPLE ignoring sensible, low-effort preventive guidelines" That's selection bias, though. You don't see the vast majority of people barely going out.
- jupp0r 6y ago
  What do you think will make people with opinions you quoted understand how the world actually works? I don't have a good answer to that. We see the same phenomenon with regards to populism in trade, immigration, etc. Sometimes people don't want to see the truth if it collides with their preconceptions. Doesn't help when leaders intentionally and constantly reinforce misinformation.