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You may find this hard to believe that but there is very little evidence that masks work for this particular disease, The group think is strong with the masks

You may find this hard to believe that but there is very little evidence that masks work for this particular disease, The group think is strong with the masks - but in reality, the scientific evidence is scant and inconclusive at best. This is why CDC never recommended them in the first place. There are a large number of people that put all their faith in masks, because what else is there? They fervently hope and really want masks to work. And I understand that I wish masks worked, but do they really? The scientific evidence is just not there. This post will be heavily downvoted for the same reason. It is a psychological thing. When they put on the mask people feel like they are doing something. People strongly believe that masks HAVE TO WORK it just MAKES SENSE THAT THEY WORK, HOW COULD MASKS NOT WORK?, in reality, the evidence is not there. Masks feel to me like a superstition or flat earth belief. Where is the evidence? Questioning the efficiency of masks is heresy, you'll get banned from Youtube or Facebook for questioning masks, but not for questioning vaccines or for promoting vitamin C as a cure for cancer ... Why is that? Because there is no evidence, if there were you'd be pointed to that.

dmix 6y ago
One of the best things about wearing a mask is I no longer touch my face. Without something covering it I rarely noticed how often I would do it. I’ve also noticed people are less inclined to take elevators with me and takes wider berths when walking. Which are all wins as far as I’m concerned. The fact it prevents a cough or sneeze from shooting 6ft is also a benefit.
- glofish 6y ago
  Touching your face makes not difference at all. Just one of the nonsense promoted by the scaremongers. COVID patients do not sneeze either. Touching face maybe reduces hepatitis and other gastro-intestinal diseases. The virus enters your nose via aerosols that will pass through masks just fine.
  - ModernMech 6y ago
    “COVID patients do not sneeze either.“ COVID prevents people from sneezing? I would assume one would still sneeze whether or not they have COVID.
    - glofish 6y ago
      it is not a symptom, treating everyone as a potential suspect is the exact problem that dehumanizes people you should not be wearing a mask just because there is 1/100,000 chance you might be sick.
      - ModernMech 6y ago
        But people with COVID including asymptotic carriers still sneeze, yes?
      - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
        Yes, you should, if it decreases the R0 factor to the point the disease dies out. Kind of the whole ball game here.
      - JeanMarcS 6y ago
        So you don't vaccine your kids either ? Because, you know, the chance they'll caught measles or chicken pox is not that high... For me it's the same way of thinking
  - dmix 6y ago
    Do you have sources or articles? I’ve read quite a few and I’m unconvinced to say the least. The study showing it doesn’t stick long to to surfaces lends some support to touching your face but I’d rather be safe than gamble on those probabilities and a longer term accumulation. The worst and most common argument I’ve heard is that “it only prevents you from infecting other people, not them from infecting you”, as if that isn’t a major piece of the puzzle. I know most infections happen with extended close contact and masks are pretty useless outdoors - which is why I only wear it in close quarters indoors. But I can’t imagine it doesn’t help at some level with the way it limits the velocity of your exhales and protects touching, even if it’s 10-30% safer than it’s worth it IMO. I take elevators and live in a building with thousands of other people sharing the same public spaces. There seems plenty of opportunity.
  - gdulli 6y ago
    > COVID patients do not sneeze either First, coughing absolutely is a coronavirus symptom even if sneezing isn't. Second, I sneeze every day, sick or not. And I don't even suffer from allergies. You're conflating it not specifically being a symptom with it not happening. Sneezing happens for different reasons.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
This post will be heavily downvoted because you're being a tool. Scant and inconclusive evidence is perfectly sufficient to justify a low-cost, low-risk intervention which might mitigate a global pandemic. Should we demand a RCT for "wash your hands" too?
- glofish 6y ago
  Stop and think about why people don't like masks. Think at a deeper level, don't jump to superficial explanations like people are lazy or selfish. People don't wear masks because it is dehumanizing. You start to treat your fellow citizen as a bag of viruses. Everyone is a suspect, and everyone is just a non-distinguishable face. This is the reason, in my opinion, why people don't want to wear them. It is a lot more to it than an inconvenience. And that is why it is only regularly worn in societies where dehumanization is already common, where there are too many people and none caring about each other. It is also common in societies where freedoms and innovation are scant and it is a tool to suppress society. At that point it does make a difference if you should be compelled to wear something that does not actually work.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    I understand that many people feel masks are dehumanizing, and I respectfully suggest that they need to get over it. In cultures where mask use is common (which now includes many areas of the US, so your sociological explanations don't make a ton of sense), masks don't feel dehumanizing; they feel like dress shoes or a tie, a bit uncomfortable but entirely normal and required in certain situations. I've never felt pressured to treat my fellow citizen as a bag of virus, nor have I been treated like one myself.
  - K0nserv 6y ago
    I think you are wrong about mask usage and especially theories on places where it's common. My understanding, which could very well be wrong, is that high mask usage is common in cultures were being a burden to others is a faux pau. Masks don't protect you from others, they protect others from you. This is why in some Asian countries it's common to wear a mask when you have symptoms of a cold out of respect for others. Rather than being a sign of a dehumanized society it seems to be a sign of an emphatic society where people don't want to burdern others. There's something uniquely western about the focus on the individual and wearing masks to protect oneself rather than protecting the collective from the individual. My understanding of the research on the topic is that mask are good at preventing spread by the wearer but not good at preventing infection of the wearer by others.
jaegerpicker 6y ago
I am as much for science based thinking as anyone but the facts that there is little proof that they work is silly to point out, when there is very little proof that they don't work. The lift of people wearing masks in public is so small that on even a tiny percentage of "working" it's worth it. People pointing out that there is little actual proof, as if there has or has been the proper amount of time and resources for proper peer-reviewed studies in a variety of environments, are likely actively harming people by encouraging more risky (even if it's a small percentage of chance of it being risky) behavior.
foogazi 6y ago
> This is why CDC never recommended the I thought it was because there were not enough masks early on
markrages 6y ago
Cyclists should be familiar with this debate, as it is closely mirrors the bicycle helmet debate. Seems like it should work, and there is some weak evidence that it is better than nothing, but mostly we wear it as a talisman to ward off evil car-spirits. Despite weak evidence (because of it?) opinions run strong, and some cycling forums have to ban the subject in the interest of civility.
- markrages 6y ago
  Maybe it's worse than the bike helmet debate, because the general left/right debate has been applied to it. So you get people berating those in masks, or castigating the President when he doesn't wear one. Might as well be putting stars on our bellies.
giardini 6y ago
glofish>"You may find this hard to believe that but there is very little evidence that masks work for this particular disease,"< glofish is right, there's little evidence that masks work for Covid-19. Peruse the following and other articles: "The Face Mask Debate Reveals a Scientific Double Standard": https://www.wired.com/story/the-face-mask-debate-reveals-a-scientific-double-standard/ https://www.wired.com/story/the-face-mask-debate-reveals-a-s... >"COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data":< https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commenta... >"Do face masks really reduce coronavirus spread? Experts have mixed answers:"< https://www.livescience.com/are-face-masks-effective-reducing-coronavirus-spread.html https://www.livescience.com/are-face-masks-effective-reducin...

dmix 6y ago

One of the best things about wearing a mask is I no longer touch my face. Without something covering it I rarely noticed how often I would do it. I’ve also noticed people are less inclined to take elevators with me and takes wider berths when walking. Which are all wins as far as I’m concerned. The fact it prevents a cough or sneeze from shooting 6ft is also a benefit.

glofish 6y ago
Touching your face makes not difference at all. Just one of the nonsense promoted by the scaremongers. COVID patients do not sneeze either. Touching face maybe reduces hepatitis and other gastro-intestinal diseases. The virus enters your nose via aerosols that will pass through masks just fine.
- ModernMech 6y ago
  “COVID patients do not sneeze either.“ COVID prevents people from sneezing? I would assume one would still sneeze whether or not they have COVID.
  - glofish 6y ago
    it is not a symptom, treating everyone as a potential suspect is the exact problem that dehumanizes people you should not be wearing a mask just because there is 1/100,000 chance you might be sick.
    - ModernMech 6y ago
      But people with COVID including asymptotic carriers still sneeze, yes?
    - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
      Yes, you should, if it decreases the R0 factor to the point the disease dies out. Kind of the whole ball game here.
    - JeanMarcS 6y ago
      So you don't vaccine your kids either ? Because, you know, the chance they'll caught measles or chicken pox is not that high... For me it's the same way of thinking
- dmix 6y ago
  Do you have sources or articles? I’ve read quite a few and I’m unconvinced to say the least. The study showing it doesn’t stick long to to surfaces lends some support to touching your face but I’d rather be safe than gamble on those probabilities and a longer term accumulation. The worst and most common argument I’ve heard is that “it only prevents you from infecting other people, not them from infecting you”, as if that isn’t a major piece of the puzzle. I know most infections happen with extended close contact and masks are pretty useless outdoors - which is why I only wear it in close quarters indoors. But I can’t imagine it doesn’t help at some level with the way it limits the velocity of your exhales and protects touching, even if it’s 10-30% safer than it’s worth it IMO. I take elevators and live in a building with thousands of other people sharing the same public spaces. There seems plenty of opportunity.
- gdulli 6y ago
  > COVID patients do not sneeze either First, coughing absolutely is a coronavirus symptom even if sneezing isn't. Second, I sneeze every day, sick or not. And I don't even suffer from allergies. You're conflating it not specifically being a symptom with it not happening. Sneezing happens for different reasons.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

This post will be heavily downvoted because you're being a tool. Scant and inconclusive evidence is perfectly sufficient to justify a low-cost, low-risk intervention which might mitigate a global pandemic. Should we demand a RCT for "wash your hands" too?

glofish 6y ago
Stop and think about why people don't like masks. Think at a deeper level, don't jump to superficial explanations like people are lazy or selfish. People don't wear masks because it is dehumanizing. You start to treat your fellow citizen as a bag of viruses. Everyone is a suspect, and everyone is just a non-distinguishable face. This is the reason, in my opinion, why people don't want to wear them. It is a lot more to it than an inconvenience. And that is why it is only regularly worn in societies where dehumanization is already common, where there are too many people and none caring about each other. It is also common in societies where freedoms and innovation are scant and it is a tool to suppress society. At that point it does make a difference if you should be compelled to wear something that does not actually work.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  I understand that many people feel masks are dehumanizing, and I respectfully suggest that they need to get over it. In cultures where mask use is common (which now includes many areas of the US, so your sociological explanations don't make a ton of sense), masks don't feel dehumanizing; they feel like dress shoes or a tie, a bit uncomfortable but entirely normal and required in certain situations. I've never felt pressured to treat my fellow citizen as a bag of virus, nor have I been treated like one myself.
- K0nserv 6y ago
  I think you are wrong about mask usage and especially theories on places where it's common. My understanding, which could very well be wrong, is that high mask usage is common in cultures were being a burden to others is a faux pau. Masks don't protect you from others, they protect others from you. This is why in some Asian countries it's common to wear a mask when you have symptoms of a cold out of respect for others. Rather than being a sign of a dehumanized society it seems to be a sign of an emphatic society where people don't want to burdern others. There's something uniquely western about the focus on the individual and wearing masks to protect oneself rather than protecting the collective from the individual. My understanding of the research on the topic is that mask are good at preventing spread by the wearer but not good at preventing infection of the wearer by others.

jaegerpicker 6y ago

I am as much for science based thinking as anyone but the facts that there is little proof that they work is silly to point out, when there is very little proof that they don't work. The lift of people wearing masks in public is so small that on even a tiny percentage of "working" it's worth it. People pointing out that there is little actual proof, as if there has or has been the proper amount of time and resources for proper peer-reviewed studies in a variety of environments, are likely actively harming people by encouraging more risky (even if it's a small percentage of chance of it being risky) behavior.

foogazi 6y ago

> This is why CDC never recommended the I thought it was because there were not enough masks early on

markrages 6y ago

Cyclists should be familiar with this debate, as it is closely mirrors the bicycle helmet debate. Seems like it should work, and there is some weak evidence that it is better than nothing, but mostly we wear it as a talisman to ward off evil car-spirits. Despite weak evidence (because of it?) opinions run strong, and some cycling forums have to ban the subject in the interest of civility.

markrages 6y ago
Maybe it's worse than the bike helmet debate, because the general left/right debate has been applied to it. So you get people berating those in masks, or castigating the President when he doesn't wear one. Might as well be putting stars on our bellies.

giardini 6y ago

glofish>"You may find this hard to believe that but there is very little evidence that masks work for this particular disease,"< glofish is right, there's little evidence that masks work for Covid-19. Peruse the following and other articles: "The Face Mask Debate Reveals a Scientific Double Standard": https://www.wired.com/story/the-face-mask-debate-reveals-a-scientific-double-standard/ https://www.wired.com/story/the-face-mask-debate-reveals-a-s... >"COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data":< https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commenta... >"Do face masks really reduce coronavirus spread? Experts have mixed answers:"< https://www.livescience.com/are-face-masks-effective-reducing-coronavirus-spread.html https://www.livescience.com/are-face-masks-effective-reducin...