5 ms·

right now just about every major IDE has a good enough vim mode. Basic vim movements can be learned in like an hour and soon you'll feel like you're trying to

right now just about every major IDE has a good enough vim mode. Basic vim movements can be learned in like an hour and soon you'll feel like you're trying to type with your toes on an ipad when using nano

craz8 6y ago
Esc, Esc, Esc, colon, q, nano Works every time, takes less than an hour to learn
- fctorial 6y ago
  https://prnt.sc/snulsx https://prnt.sc/snulsx
- BearOso 6y ago
  Esc, Esc, Esc, :, q, !, Enter is the definitive way to go.
mfontani 6y ago
Vim's (well... "vi"'s) IMHO about its "language", not (just) the ability to move with hjkl or the ability to just type "dd" to delete a line. The ability to join together optional "contexts" (this visual selection, this line range, the whole file, ...) with "verbs" (delete, change, append, ...) and "adjectives" (up to, including, ...) and "nouns"/"things" (word, WORD, next search term, letter, line number, ...) is what makes the language both worth to learn, and powerful. This is enlightening: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1218390/what-is-your-most-productive-shortcut-with-vim#1220118 https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1218390/what-is-your-mos... My point being: aside from the few IDEs which "really include" a copy of "full" vi/vim (i.e. including a remote neovim they communicate with), a well-seasoned Vi user is probably far better off using the real editor, than they are using a crippled "vi-like mode".
- jack_pp 6y ago
  I'm a basic/intermediate vim user for about 8 years now and I implore you to stop talking about vim like this. You overcomplicate basic vim and make it sound all esoteric when it isn't but people who haven't gotten through vimtutor will probably read your comment and just reinforce the belief that vim has a steep learning curve and is probably not worth learning. Also, try vim mode in VSCode before stating that it's not really mature enough and you're better off with vanilla vim. I am certain you haven't and are operating on the mistaken assumption that vim modes are not mature enough
  - methodin 6y ago
    I disagree. Without getting to know the language you end up just memorizing commands which is akin to doing the same thing in school to pass a course but getting nothing out of it in the long run.
    - jack_pp 6y ago
      Getting nothing out of it? Any navigation whatsoever using a basic editor is a pain in the ass compared to vim, learning that alone is trivial and would probably make people switch to vim. Add to navigation a few bells and whistles like replacing text inside brackets, dot macros and probably 10 others things that I can't name off the top of my head but are very convenient and "in the long run" you would've saved a whole lot of time and made coding more enjoyable because your edit speed is noticeably improved.
      - 411111111111111 6y ago
        Personally I went from cli vim on servers (sys admin) to vim mode in atom. I loved atoms vim mode - especially the way it handled multiline input. Then I switched to vscode and struggled a little. Copy paste didn't just work, i.e. getting things from the register (yank) into another application and multiline input was not pleasant (esc deselecting instead of exiting input mode etc) Then I switched to intellij (developer now) and installed vim mode. When I noticed how often I had to use the menu because I wanted to use an ide feature I realized that it got more in the way then in helped, so I removed it and went back to just navigating with ^-f and arrow keys. I definitely miss atoms vim mode. But it's not that big of a difference, because the actual input time is usually less then the time thinking about what to implement and how to do it.
- yomly 6y ago
  I agree that the navigation is top notch in Vim. But after getting comfortable with navigation and general operation of vim, it opened up macros as a means of using it. Then recently I've come to appreciate how well Vim composes with "it's just text" Unix tools and how being able to filter things to tabularise or sort your code is almost magic. All while keeping your edit history and not requiring any plugins. It goes deep, but in a good way. I guess what's also good is you can get a lot of value without having to go that deep
- 0xfaded 6y ago
  When you record a macro you record the key presses to the specified register (e.g. "qa" records the macro to register "a"). A long time ago (early university years) I needed to do some codegen, which I implemented with a vim macro. But the macro was waaaaaaay to long and complicated to record once without making mistakes. So as you've alluded to, I wrote a "program" in a separate file which was all the key presses to generate a c++ class (including pretty print!) from a protocol definition. I could then yank the program into a register, switched tabs, and ran the macro :) Totally maintainable /s
  - fit2rule 6y ago
    You reminded me of the time I solved a thorny PROGRESS/4GL programming problem in the 80's using PC-Write (what an editor that was!) by writing a macro file containing a code-gen/-mod script, and then feeding the macro file into PC-Write and processing 2,000 source files in a few minutes, ready for re-compilation. I haven't done that too much with vim in the ~35 years since then, but that's only because I haven't quite grok'ed how to write vim macro's by hand, yet. I should probably figure that out by now, but as a vim guy all I've ever needed is maybe 1% of all of vim's feature set to be productive ..
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- fit2rule 6y ago
  I completely agree with you. Every time I get an IDE's "vi mode" unpacked and set up in any way that I can try to use it, I end up running from the IDE with my hair on fire, back to plain ol' text-mode vim at the command line. These features only ever serve to remind me that the IDE is the problem, not vim. Disclaimer: vi/vim user for 30+ years.
- atrettel 6y ago
  I agree with this basic idea, though I understand why some people have a difficult time seeing it. VI and Vim are advertised as "modal" editors, but in fact they are just editors that accept a rather terse command language. I originally never wanted to use Vim but had to use it often at work (especially in the server room), so I got used to mechanically entering and exiting insert mode as many people do. That was the extent of my knowledge, but then during a slow period at work I took the time to learn Vim thoroughly by reading "Learning the vi and Vim Editors" from O'Reilly. It changed my view of VI and Vim to the point that (as I had said) I now think of them as command-based editors rather than modal editors. Once you realize that each key press is a command in a very terse language, you can see the power and expressiveness of the language, but it takes some practice and time to build up your intuition. For example, I often find myself typing something like "79a-ESC" or "79i-ESC" to put in a horizontal rule in text or Markdown documents. To somebody thinking modally this command makes little sense, since I leave insert mode immediately after typing a single character! But from a command language perspective it makes total sense, since I merely instruct Vim to append 79 dashes to the current line. Once you see that it's a language, you stay in command "mode" much more, since that is where the power is.
dageshi 6y ago
I base my personal hatred of vim on the first time I encountered it and couldn't escape from it. CTRL C, CTRL Z... nothing worked, I was utterly trapped, I think I may have even had to reboot the system to get out of it. I decided anything so utterly unintuitive wasn't worth my time and stuck with nano ever since, quite happily I have to say.
- antepodius 6y ago
  Happy like a pig in shit, we vim elitists might say! ;)

craz8 6y ago

Esc, Esc, Esc, colon, q, nano Works every time, takes less than an hour to learn

fctorial 6y ago
https://prnt.sc/snulsx https://prnt.sc/snulsx
BearOso 6y ago
Esc, Esc, Esc, :, q, !, Enter is the definitive way to go.

mfontani 6y ago

Vim's (well... "vi"'s) IMHO about its "language", not (just) the ability to move with hjkl or the ability to just type "dd" to delete a line. The ability to join together optional "contexts" (this visual selection, this line range, the whole file, ...) with "verbs" (delete, change, append, ...) and "adjectives" (up to, including, ...) and "nouns"/"things" (word, WORD, next search term, letter, line number, ...) is what makes the language both worth to learn, and powerful. This is enlightening: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1218390/what-is-your-most-productive-shortcut-with-vim#1220118 https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1218390/what-is-your-mos... My point being: aside from the few IDEs which "really include" a copy of "full" vi/vim (i.e. including a remote neovim they communicate with), a well-seasoned Vi user is probably far better off using the real editor, than they are using a crippled "vi-like mode".

jack_pp 6y ago
I'm a basic/intermediate vim user for about 8 years now and I implore you to stop talking about vim like this. You overcomplicate basic vim and make it sound all esoteric when it isn't but people who haven't gotten through vimtutor will probably read your comment and just reinforce the belief that vim has a steep learning curve and is probably not worth learning. Also, try vim mode in VSCode before stating that it's not really mature enough and you're better off with vanilla vim. I am certain you haven't and are operating on the mistaken assumption that vim modes are not mature enough
- methodin 6y ago
  I disagree. Without getting to know the language you end up just memorizing commands which is akin to doing the same thing in school to pass a course but getting nothing out of it in the long run.
  - jack_pp 6y ago
    Getting nothing out of it? Any navigation whatsoever using a basic editor is a pain in the ass compared to vim, learning that alone is trivial and would probably make people switch to vim. Add to navigation a few bells and whistles like replacing text inside brackets, dot macros and probably 10 others things that I can't name off the top of my head but are very convenient and "in the long run" you would've saved a whole lot of time and made coding more enjoyable because your edit speed is noticeably improved.
    - 411111111111111 6y ago
      Personally I went from cli vim on servers (sys admin) to vim mode in atom. I loved atoms vim mode - especially the way it handled multiline input. Then I switched to vscode and struggled a little. Copy paste didn't just work, i.e. getting things from the register (yank) into another application and multiline input was not pleasant (esc deselecting instead of exiting input mode etc) Then I switched to intellij (developer now) and installed vim mode. When I noticed how often I had to use the menu because I wanted to use an ide feature I realized that it got more in the way then in helped, so I removed it and went back to just navigating with ^-f and arrow keys. I definitely miss atoms vim mode. But it's not that big of a difference, because the actual input time is usually less then the time thinking about what to implement and how to do it.
yomly 6y ago
I agree that the navigation is top notch in Vim. But after getting comfortable with navigation and general operation of vim, it opened up macros as a means of using it. Then recently I've come to appreciate how well Vim composes with "it's just text" Unix tools and how being able to filter things to tabularise or sort your code is almost magic. All while keeping your edit history and not requiring any plugins. It goes deep, but in a good way. I guess what's also good is you can get a lot of value without having to go that deep
0xfaded 6y ago
When you record a macro you record the key presses to the specified register (e.g. "qa" records the macro to register "a"). A long time ago (early university years) I needed to do some codegen, which I implemented with a vim macro. But the macro was waaaaaaay to long and complicated to record once without making mistakes. So as you've alluded to, I wrote a "program" in a separate file which was all the key presses to generate a c++ class (including pretty print!) from a protocol definition. I could then yank the program into a register, switched tabs, and ran the macro :) Totally maintainable /s
- fit2rule 6y ago
  You reminded me of the time I solved a thorny PROGRESS/4GL programming problem in the 80's using PC-Write (what an editor that was!) by writing a macro file containing a code-gen/-mod script, and then feeding the macro file into PC-Write and processing 2,000 source files in a few minutes, ready for re-compilation. I haven't done that too much with vim in the ~35 years since then, but that's only because I haven't quite grok'ed how to write vim macro's by hand, yet. I should probably figure that out by now, but as a vim guy all I've ever needed is maybe 1% of all of vim's feature set to be productive ..
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
fit2rule 6y ago
I completely agree with you. Every time I get an IDE's "vi mode" unpacked and set up in any way that I can try to use it, I end up running from the IDE with my hair on fire, back to plain ol' text-mode vim at the command line. These features only ever serve to remind me that the IDE is the problem, not vim. Disclaimer: vi/vim user for 30+ years.
atrettel 6y ago
I agree with this basic idea, though I understand why some people have a difficult time seeing it. VI and Vim are advertised as "modal" editors, but in fact they are just editors that accept a rather terse command language. I originally never wanted to use Vim but had to use it often at work (especially in the server room), so I got used to mechanically entering and exiting insert mode as many people do. That was the extent of my knowledge, but then during a slow period at work I took the time to learn Vim thoroughly by reading "Learning the vi and Vim Editors" from O'Reilly. It changed my view of VI and Vim to the point that (as I had said) I now think of them as command-based editors rather than modal editors. Once you realize that each key press is a command in a very terse language, you can see the power and expressiveness of the language, but it takes some practice and time to build up your intuition. For example, I often find myself typing something like "79a-ESC" or "79i-ESC" to put in a horizontal rule in text or Markdown documents. To somebody thinking modally this command makes little sense, since I leave insert mode immediately after typing a single character! But from a command language perspective it makes total sense, since I merely instruct Vim to append 79 dashes to the current line. Once you see that it's a language, you stay in command "mode" much more, since that is where the power is.

dageshi 6y ago

I base my personal hatred of vim on the first time I encountered it and couldn't escape from it. CTRL C, CTRL Z... nothing worked, I was utterly trapped, I think I may have even had to reboot the system to get out of it. I decided anything so utterly unintuitive wasn't worth my time and stuck with nano ever since, quite happily I have to say.

antepodius 6y ago
Happy like a pig in shit, we vim elitists might say! ;)