4 ms·

Note that this separation is more due to the fact that you’re rich, than any formal currency arrangement. Foreigners in the 1990s got the same treatment, before

• smnrchrds 6y ago
  > The police arrest those who spend too much time with foreigners. This is news to me. Do you have a source for this claim?
  • SiempreViernes 6y ago
    Well, a bit of hyperbole I guess. The police actually arrest anyone that opposes the regime too vigorously on such grounds as them being “antisocial” or “dangerous.”[1] With the current diplomatic relationship between the USA and Cuba, hanging around Americans too much is likely cause for suspicion. I imagine fraternizing with Maduro-Venezuelans is not cause for concern, nor Chinese. Not sure about North Koreans, I'd hope that North Koreans are always cause for concern for any secret service. [1]:https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/13/world/americas/cuba-judge.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/13/world/americas/cuba-judge...
  • lordnacho 6y ago
    Seems plausible. Some guys offered to feed us lobster so we went to theirs, but they insisted on hiding the cars we'd rented. People seemed pretty careful about cops.
    • bonzini 6y ago
      Lobster is illegal to sell to tourists. Camarón (large shrimps) is also illegal but they can find it more easily on the black market.
      • dogma1138 6y ago
        I thought it was the other way around, Lobsters and Shrimp could only be sold to tourists and for export in Cuba.
        • bonzini 6y ago
          Indeed I wasn't accurate. The parent comment seemed to talk about a self-owned restaurant (paladar); since it is not legal for the owner to buy the lobster and shrimp in the first place, paladares and self-owned guestrooms cannot sell it to tourists either.
  • rnapoles 6y ago
    Police call it "tourism siege" or ideological diversion. I am cuban.
  • dgut 6y ago
    Yes. Source: I'm cuban.
  • robocat 6y ago
    I’ve caused it, although approx 15 years ago when I was in Cuba for a month. First time, an obviously dodgy couple in Havana approached me at night shortly after I arrived. I will usually be friendly and talk with anyone without prejudice. I enjoy talking to grifters and operators, and I will happily pretend to be a victim when it amuses me to do so if I only risk a few dollars. I have travelled enough to be somewhat careful and how to look after myself; I speak conversational Spanish which helps; and I am a white New Zealander which often avoids trouble, and it honestly also helps get out of trouble. Police took the couple away shortly after I started talking with them, and I was very concerned. However I managed to track down the relevant police station. A tourist hanging in police station for hours probably caused the police some hassle (they hard out lied and tried to deceive me, but I wasn’t deterred), so eventually the couple were released at about 4AM, and I was able to find out what happened. He was pimping her (absolutely not my scene), and they had been fined about USD4 which I just gave them. I think normal salary was USD5 per week, so they would have taken ages to pay it. After that hideous experience in Havana, I decided to go to one of the gated touristy beach areas where I presumed every local was vetted. I did speak with locals, but avoided anyone that I thought was dodgy. But apparently one guy was arrested for talking to foreigners, which had included me, although he just wanted to practice English as far as I know (I never had a reason to suspect him of a darker ulterior motive). His friends said there was nothing I could do to help and that it wasn’t a big issue (maybe just par for the course, normal life), but I felt really helpless. Another time a woman told me to pay a cop USD5 or else the cop would rape her. It didn’t feel like a scam on her part, she was truely scared, and I certainly wasn’t willing to risk anything so I paid the extortion. I think my only fault in that case was being a tourist. I probably should have reported the officer, but I was too surprised at the time to notice any ID, and even now I am unsure if there would have been retribution on her. I suspect that if a tourist only speaks English, they might be less likely to cause trouble, and they are less likely to be aware of any trouble they cause. Being in ones own tourist bubble is a normal thing for tourists, and is often encouraged (everyone has the incentive for tourists to enjoy themselves and spend money), and it is often difficult for tourists to interact with locals in any meaningful manner (especially given that in a poor country a tourist is often relatively a millionaire, and often in tourist areas). I am sure Cuba has changed, but I am also sure that the same authoritarian structures are still in place. Overall, Cuba was the worst country I have ever been to for a feeling of hopeless authoritarianism. As a tourist I felt mostly untouchable, but the grind of the people living there was horrific (warning, politics: I do blame the US blockade for a large part of that, especially because I think it helped Castro stay in power). I have other friends that loved travelling there, so YMMV.
  • frandroid 6y ago
    I have a friend who had befriended a Cuban guy and she was visiting him every year or two... On her last two visits he was detained multiple days for hanging out with her. He has now left Cuba for Russia.
  • tacon 6y ago
    A female Spanish friend and I spent 11 days in Cuba in 2004. The overwhelming presence of security forces (secret police) made me feel the safest I have ever felt while traveling, even while being slightly drunk walking down a back alley at 2am, where two out of three street lights were broken and odd young men were sitting in the doorways of buildings with tons of ancient exposed wiring hanging down visible. There is a police station on every block of the city of Havana, apparently instituted long ago after someone set off a bomb during one of Fidel's hours long speeches. If anyone were to rob you, there is almost nothing they could spend it on without sticking out like a sore thumb. As far as arresting locals for approaching foreigners, back then the issue was with young Cuban women abandoning their $25/mo jobs and turning tricks with tourists ($100/night). I read that the police would never embarrass the tourist, but put the hammer down on the woman once she was away from the man. Those women were nicknamed jineteras[0], from the root jinete (jockey). [0] https://www.bestcubatravelguide.com/jineteros-and-jineteras/ https://www.bestcubatravelguide.com/jineteros-and-jineteras/
    • deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  • farcitizen 6y ago
    I got a source. My ex-Gf who was scrambling to get her brother to contact a family friend to make sure she didn’t get on a government list for being caught with me. The police stoped us when she was on the back of my scooter.
• bonzini 6y ago
  > Anyone who approaches you speaking english is a hustler and does it professionally. Outside the cities it's a bit better. Hitchhiking is common in Cuba and when we visited it was both fun and instructive to talk to the people to whom we offered a ride. Also talking to the people at CUP bars and restaurants like Dona Yulla was fun. We spoke Spanish though (or a mix of Spanish and Italian).
  • graeme 6y ago
    Agreed, different outside tourist hotspots. >to whom we offered a ride. But this is a major difference. You approach a Cuban --> 99.9% normal person. They approach you, speaking English --> probably hustler.
• zxcv1975 6y ago
  > And the government goes a long way to try to separate tourists from the real society, though you can still get to it if you care to. It's not like that anymore. There are many Cubans who rent a room in their houses, so foreigners live with them and share with the family. > The police arrest those who spend too much time with foreigners It is possible, but I don't think it is very likely. I think those who can be arrested are doing some illegal activity, like selling tobacco or lobster. Generally these products are from the black market. In the city where I live there are always foreigners all year round and they coexist with Cubans normally.
  • graeme 6y ago
    You could rent rooms in houses when I was there too, that's mostly where I stayed. But 99% of the tourist market is in enclaves. As for arresting Cubans, I may have spoken too loosely. The government doesn't really have a problem with conversations between foreigners and Cubans here and there, or with people having a foreign friend. What the government is looking out for is someone who has a habit of talking to many different foreigners. Usually this is done for some illegal purpose: black market hustling, or sex work. But talking to a lot of different people is one of the things they use to check for that. As an example, if a Cuban visits a foreign friend in one of those tourist rooms, they have to give up their internal passport to the host, who must record their visit in a log which the police review. And like anything else, something which is tolerated can still cause problems. i.e. in much of the west, you can do drugs fairly safely, but you shouldn't wave it in a cop's face. So, if you are a Cuban and do have a foreign friend, you still have to be careful. Cuba has a system of neighbourhood government snitches that keep tabs on everyone. However, these have relaxed a bit I think. I can say I never found Cubans hesitant to make friends with me while I worked there. But, Cubans always have to be careful about where the lines are, and not to cross them. For more, have a look at all the replies to this question about my post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23305332 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23305332