6 ms·

In sense, the parent-child relationship is kind of weird to have compared to the flight-crew/pilot or the guide-dog/disable-person relationship. The later relat

In sense, the parent-child relationship is kind of weird to have compared to the flight-crew/pilot or the guide-dog/disable-person relationship. The later relationships are between trained individuals (or animals) acting in fairly specific circumstances. The parent-child relationship is something everyone winds-up with, with large portion also doing the parent part. And so whatever training a parent has is minimal yet the circumstance that they deal with their children in are very general. So a lot of problem parent behavior is ... a problem. The main way something like this "Children's Rights Education" tries to resemble the other situation is teaching kids that there are few circumstances of abuse where they legally refuse/resist. Of course, there are lot of abusive situations that the child can't legally resist and of course being a child navigating such an overall situation presents many minefields. Which is to say this approach has to subscribe to the fiction (derived from the law) that there is a fixed line between abuse and non-abuse where in fact the line is fuzzy indeed.

DoreenMichele 6y ago
For the most part, the real solution to child abuse or mistreatment is to deal with the parents. America does a poor job of providing adequate support to parents. We have a lot of family unfriendly policies.
- paulryanrogers 6y ago
  Can you elaborate? Provide some examples of other communities that do better? (Honest question.)
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    The US is stingier with child care and maternity leave than the rest of the world https://theconversation.com/the-us-is-stingier-with-child-care-and-maternity-leave-than-the-rest-of-the-world-94770 https://theconversation.com/the-us-is-stingier-with-child-ca... The US is on a short list of countries that don't provide maternity leave. All the others are dirt poor. We have no such excuses. We have terrible healthcare policies. At one time, it was somewhat common for dad to be the primary breadwinner and have a decent job with benefits, including healthcare for the wife and kids. Mom worked part time or was a homemaker. Now, even if both parents work, the kids may not be automatically covered on either parent's healthcare policy from work. They may have to pay extra for that. (Though I'm not clear how much Obamacere changed that.) In much of Europe, it is still somewhat common for the extended family to help raise the kids, daycare is generally more readily available, maternity leave is the norm, etc. You don't have to try hard at all to find countries with better family-friendly policies than the US, even without having sophisticated, well-thought-out ideas about what that should mean.
    - Gunax 6y ago
      No, the US does have maternity leave. It just doesn't have paid maternity leave. Also known as: it doesn't take money out of my pocket to pay for your kids.
      - DoreenMichele 6y ago
        Every dollar spent on helping to care for the nation's children that are below a certain age saves several dollars on down the line on things like incarceration. This is a penny wise, pound foolish attitude. If you want to be a "stingy bastard," the "stingy bastard" option is to take care of the kids so they don't become bigger problems down the line. (Not intended to name call. Just intended to characterize a certain position.)
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        zxcmx 6y ago
        It feels like there's some kind of weird amnesia that a lot of people experience, where for part of their lives they forget they were ever children. They read about a child friendly policy and think about "other people". Somehow their mind doesn't click in such a way that they can generalise and understand that such measures might be universal and benefit every future person[1]. And that they would have helped them too. [1] At least, those lucky enough to have families.
        Gunax 6y ago
        I know it's difficult to disagree, but please don't strawman. Obviously I know everyone was a kid. But we agree as a society that parents are responsible for the financial burdens of their offspring. It isn't fair to make people who choose not to have kids to pay for those who do. And maternity leave isn't really a benefit for the child--it's a benefit to the parent. No one will ever remember their first 8 weeks of life. Just like it isn't fair to make people who don't take vacations to pay for those who do. I don't believe one has a right to have children in the same sense that one has a right to fair trial or healthcare. If you cannot afford to skip work for 8 weeks, then save money or don't have a kid.

DoreenMichele 6y ago

For the most part, the real solution to child abuse or mistreatment is to deal with the parents. America does a poor job of providing adequate support to parents. We have a lot of family unfriendly policies.

paulryanrogers 6y ago
Can you elaborate? Provide some examples of other communities that do better? (Honest question.)
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  The US is stingier with child care and maternity leave than the rest of the world https://theconversation.com/the-us-is-stingier-with-child-care-and-maternity-leave-than-the-rest-of-the-world-94770 https://theconversation.com/the-us-is-stingier-with-child-ca... The US is on a short list of countries that don't provide maternity leave. All the others are dirt poor. We have no such excuses. We have terrible healthcare policies. At one time, it was somewhat common for dad to be the primary breadwinner and have a decent job with benefits, including healthcare for the wife and kids. Mom worked part time or was a homemaker. Now, even if both parents work, the kids may not be automatically covered on either parent's healthcare policy from work. They may have to pay extra for that. (Though I'm not clear how much Obamacere changed that.) In much of Europe, it is still somewhat common for the extended family to help raise the kids, daycare is generally more readily available, maternity leave is the norm, etc. You don't have to try hard at all to find countries with better family-friendly policies than the US, even without having sophisticated, well-thought-out ideas about what that should mean.
  - Gunax 6y ago
    No, the US does have maternity leave. It just doesn't have paid maternity leave. Also known as: it doesn't take money out of my pocket to pay for your kids.
    - DoreenMichele 6y ago
      Every dollar spent on helping to care for the nation's children that are below a certain age saves several dollars on down the line on things like incarceration. This is a penny wise, pound foolish attitude. If you want to be a "stingy bastard," the "stingy bastard" option is to take care of the kids so they don't become bigger problems down the line. (Not intended to name call. Just intended to characterize a certain position.)
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - zxcmx 6y ago
        It feels like there's some kind of weird amnesia that a lot of people experience, where for part of their lives they forget they were ever children. They read about a child friendly policy and think about "other people". Somehow their mind doesn't click in such a way that they can generalise and understand that such measures might be universal and benefit every future person[1]. And that they would have helped them too. [1] At least, those lucky enough to have families.
        Gunax 6y ago
        I know it's difficult to disagree, but please don't strawman. Obviously I know everyone was a kid. But we agree as a society that parents are responsible for the financial burdens of their offspring. It isn't fair to make people who choose not to have kids to pay for those who do. And maternity leave isn't really a benefit for the child--it's a benefit to the parent. No one will ever remember their first 8 weeks of life. Just like it isn't fair to make people who don't take vacations to pay for those who do. I don't believe one has a right to have children in the same sense that one has a right to fair trial or healthcare. If you cannot afford to skip work for 8 weeks, then save money or don't have a kid.