6 ms·

Ironically, US' biggest export to China before 2018 was soybeans, which they "appropriated" from the Middle Kingdom in 18 AD. And yes, farming was subsidized b

by rado 6y ago

Ironically, US' biggest export to China before 2018 was soybeans, which they "appropriated" from the Middle Kingdom in 18 AD. And yes, farming was subsidized by Washington.

pradn 6y ago
18 AD? 2000 years ago? Do you mean 1800 AD?
- rado 6y ago
  18th century, sorry!
  - nickik 6y ago
    1800 is not in the 18th century.
    - rado 6y ago
      Yes, I meant 18th century AD, around 1770.
empath75 6y ago
The US did what in 18AD?
- fnord123 6y ago
  It's a common grammatical error for temporal typical people. Time travellers would have said "The US will have appropriateded in the 1800/18 fold". Not to be confused with 2036/2000 fold.
clairity 6y ago
how did the US, which didn't exist until 1776 AD, appropriate the soybean from china in 18 AD? but yes, it's unclear if soybeans are still the top export from the US to china, but china is apparently still the top export destination for american soybeans.
- azernik 6y ago
  That's a pretty obvious typo for "18th century AD".
keiferski 6y ago
By the 18th century, soybeans were introduced to the Americas and Europe from China. Soy was introduced to Africa from China in the late 19th century, and is now widespread across the continent. They are now a major crop in the United States, Brazil, Argentina, India, and China. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean#History
lcam84 6y ago
Regarding subsidies, this article changed the way I look at the european common agriculture policy. Many local economies (sugar in Jamaica, cow meat in South Africa) could not compete with this practices and went bankrupt. https://www.iatp.org/sites/default/files/Dumping_on_the_Poor_The_Common_Agricultural_Po.htm https://www.iatp.org/sites/default/files/Dumping_on_the_Poor...
- raverbashing 6y ago
  It's been long since I haven't read such a biased text. Yes, subsidies suck, production is not always as efficient as it can be and there's a political aspect to subsidies. But food insecurity sucks more. And no, outsourcing everything won't work. But if you can't compete with agricultural produce done with higher labour cost and with freight on top there's something very wrong with your means of production. Because I can assure you most 3rd world countries don't need to import sugar or beef. But hey now the UK farmer's won't have the big bad EU subsidies and tariffs anymore so I guess it will work all good for them, no?
  - DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
    > if you can't compete with agricultural produce done with higher labour cost and with freight on top there's something very wrong with your means of production. Isn't the point that EU agricultural surpluses are being dumped in undeveloped economies below cost? You can't compete on price against free (to exaggerate a bit). As I understand it, the EU subsidizes agriculture in order to ensure an overabundant food supply (and because of the political agricultural lobby). This may be a completely fine policy, because you don't want there to be famine if something goes slightly wrong. These subsidies lead to overproduction. Some of the surplus is dumped in foreign markets at prices that are well below cost. Farmers in undeveloped countries cannot compete on price. Since undeveloped countries depend more heavily on agriculture, this has an outsize impact on their economies.
    - raverbashing 6y ago
      > Some of the surplus is dumped in foreign markets at prices that are well below cost. Farmers in undeveloped countries cannot compete on price. Yes, but you would still have the transportation costs on top of them. Which depending on the product is not so cheap. It seems the policies and subsidies change with time as well and some of the overproduction was used by the EU in humanitarian programs as well. It definitely seems to be a politicized topic and I definitely don't think it is without problems. But saying it costs "16GBP per week per each family in increased food costs" is a misrepresentation at the most charitable interpretation. Feel free to compare supermarket prices of unprocessed products (with comparable quality)
seanmcdirmid 6y ago
The USA wasn’t around in 18AD, the Colombian exchange Of new and old world crops didn’t occur until the 15th and 16th century. Soy bean exports are basically a proxy for pork, since exported soy is primarily used in animal feed.

by rado 6y ago

Ironically, US' biggest export to China before 2018 was soybeans, which they "appropriated" from the Middle Kingdom in 18 AD. And yes, farming was subsidized by Washington.

pradn 6y ago

18 AD? 2000 years ago? Do you mean 1800 AD?

rado 6y ago
18th century, sorry!
- nickik 6y ago
  1800 is not in the 18th century.
  - rado 6y ago
    Yes, I meant 18th century AD, around 1770.

empath75 6y ago

The US did what in 18AD?

fnord123 6y ago
It's a common grammatical error for temporal typical people. Time travellers would have said "The US will have appropriateded in the 1800/18 fold". Not to be confused with 2036/2000 fold.

clairity 6y ago

how did the US, which didn't exist until 1776 AD, appropriate the soybean from china in 18 AD? but yes, it's unclear if soybeans are still the top export from the US to china, but china is apparently still the top export destination for american soybeans.

azernik 6y ago
That's a pretty obvious typo for "18th century AD".

keiferski 6y ago

By the 18th century, soybeans were introduced to the Americas and Europe from China. Soy was introduced to Africa from China in the late 19th century, and is now widespread across the continent. They are now a major crop in the United States, Brazil, Argentina, India, and China. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean#History

lcam84 6y ago

Regarding subsidies, this article changed the way I look at the european common agriculture policy. Many local economies (sugar in Jamaica, cow meat in South Africa) could not compete with this practices and went bankrupt. https://www.iatp.org/sites/default/files/Dumping_on_the_Poor_The_Common_Agricultural_Po.htm https://www.iatp.org/sites/default/files/Dumping_on_the_Poor...

raverbashing 6y ago
It's been long since I haven't read such a biased text. Yes, subsidies suck, production is not always as efficient as it can be and there's a political aspect to subsidies. But food insecurity sucks more. And no, outsourcing everything won't work. But if you can't compete with agricultural produce done with higher labour cost and with freight on top there's something very wrong with your means of production. Because I can assure you most 3rd world countries don't need to import sugar or beef. But hey now the UK farmer's won't have the big bad EU subsidies and tariffs anymore so I guess it will work all good for them, no?
- DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
  > if you can't compete with agricultural produce done with higher labour cost and with freight on top there's something very wrong with your means of production. Isn't the point that EU agricultural surpluses are being dumped in undeveloped economies below cost? You can't compete on price against free (to exaggerate a bit). As I understand it, the EU subsidizes agriculture in order to ensure an overabundant food supply (and because of the political agricultural lobby). This may be a completely fine policy, because you don't want there to be famine if something goes slightly wrong. These subsidies lead to overproduction. Some of the surplus is dumped in foreign markets at prices that are well below cost. Farmers in undeveloped countries cannot compete on price. Since undeveloped countries depend more heavily on agriculture, this has an outsize impact on their economies.
  - raverbashing 6y ago
    > Some of the surplus is dumped in foreign markets at prices that are well below cost. Farmers in undeveloped countries cannot compete on price. Yes, but you would still have the transportation costs on top of them. Which depending on the product is not so cheap. It seems the policies and subsidies change with time as well and some of the overproduction was used by the EU in humanitarian programs as well. It definitely seems to be a politicized topic and I definitely don't think it is without problems. But saying it costs "16GBP per week per each family in increased food costs" is a misrepresentation at the most charitable interpretation. Feel free to compare supermarket prices of unprocessed products (with comparable quality)

seanmcdirmid 6y ago

The USA wasn’t around in 18AD, the Colombian exchange Of new and old world crops didn’t occur until the 15th and 16th century. Soy bean exports are basically a proxy for pork, since exported soy is primarily used in animal feed.