5 ms·

Here were my "sunk costs" of org-mode. 1) org-mode makes a bad spreadsheet 2) No good Android interface, Orgzly is OK, but doesn't do advanced features and of

Here were my "sunk costs" of org-mode. 1) org-mode makes a bad spreadsheet 2) No good Android interface, Orgzly is OK, but doesn't do advanced features and often crashed for me. 3) Despite lots of trying, I couldn't get "into" using the Emacs shortcut keys, which are different to every other application on Windows. 4) I like variable width fonts, and variable width fonts don't seem to work with various bits of org mode (for example tables) I'm sure you love org-mode, and that's great, but plenty of people over the years have tried and failed to love emacs, and lost a whole lot of time in the process.

na85 6y ago
There are packages you can install to make the copy/cut/paste keys and a few others more Windows-like.
- sparkie 6y ago
  M-x cua-mode should work out of the box
  - CJefferson 6y ago
    cua conflicts with org, so you can't use them both together (I've been told, and googling suggests this is true)
    - sparkie 6y ago
      There are a few key binding collisions, but otherwise they can be used together.
      - im3w1l 6y ago
        So now you are telling a noob who just wants to get some task done to start resolving key binding collisions.
        sparkie 6y ago
        The noob probably won't even be aware of the collisions if they're a new emacs user. The org-mode keybindings will override the cua-mode bindings. Afaik, it's only shift+arrow keys. A noob can pick up emacs, type M-x cua-mode M-x org-mode and have a simple to use outliner which recognizes most of the keyboard shortcuts they're familiar with.
        im3w1l 6y ago
        Ah fair enough then
bcrosby95 6y ago
1) Is there any note taking application that makes a good spreadsheet? Just use a dedicated spreadsheet program. 2) I'm using Orgzly and yeah, it's OK. For me, OK is all I really need here since I mostly need org-mode when I'm infront of a computer. When I'm away all I really need it for is quickly adding things to do. 3) Definitely takes getting used to. I started using org-mode a couple years ago as a vim user. I've also lost a lot of time trying different apps such as Evernote, OneNote, and Trello. And setting everything up to integrate between them. Eventually I decided on markdown files for notes, but the TODO and tag integration of org-mode is what made me switch.
karlicoss 6y ago
For 3 -- I've always been a vim user, and I know maybe 3-4 native Emacs hotkeys, thanks to evil-mode. Also Spacemacs/Doom emacs provides a reasonable layer of bindings outside org-mode
samatman 6y ago
It should be possible to use monospaced fonts only for tables. They're syntax highlighted in a distinct way and that should be all you need. This is the fundamental tradeoff of emacs, basically: it's nearly always possible to get exactly what you want, in exchange for an unreasonable amount of effort.
alessivs 6y ago
> 4) I like variable width fonts, and variable width fonts don't seem to work with various bits of org mode (for example tables) Same. I use mixed-pitch[1], a package on MELPA[2] M-x package-install mixed-pitch will take care of Org tables and more. Doesn't attack the problem minimally, but comes with sensible choices; it's been basically a drop-in-and-forget activation snippet. [1]: https://gitlab.com/jabranham/mixed-pitch https://gitlab.com/jabranham/mixed-pitch [2]: https://melpa.org/#/mixed-pitch https://melpa.org/#/mixed-pitch
zelphirkalt 6y ago
I've actually found, that for me org mode spreadsheets (table with formulas) make a lot of sense and I like having them together with all other stuff I put in an org mode file. I appreciate a lot, that it is still all plain text. Once one gets the hang of using those spreadsheets and has written oneself a few examples, from which one can always copy or look things up, I think they are pretty amazing. Perhaps this is exactly the time you do not wish to spend on it, which is fine. Just saying, that for many purposes those spreadsheets work very well. There is after all GNU Calc behind them and if you want a complete programming language in form of Elisp as well. Power they do not lack, that is for sure.
allarm 6y ago
1) org-mode makes a good spreadsheet 2) Not being Android user myself, I have only heard good things about Orgzly from Emacs people around. What features exactly are you missing? 3) you can use any keys you want with Emacs. I have my own setup that I am using along with the Vim key bindings/text objects. 4) pretty much everything else works well with fonts and colors; tables yeah, tend to keep simple formatting. Emacs is not ideal. But it is the most flexible and configurable piece of software in the world - and org-mode is the best outliner ever created.
- CJefferson 6y ago
  Thanks, I hope this will be useful for other people! 1) When I google for some advanced operations (like multi-column sort), the advice seemed to be export as CSV and do it in openoffice. 2) While orgzly is a good attempt, if you google around you will find lots of limitations (it's too long since I've used it), as it is a reimplementation of org-mode so can't hope to be feature complete.

na85 6y ago

There are packages you can install to make the copy/cut/paste keys and a few others more Windows-like.

sparkie 6y ago
M-x cua-mode should work out of the box
- CJefferson 6y ago
  cua conflicts with org, so you can't use them both together (I've been told, and googling suggests this is true)
  - sparkie 6y ago
    There are a few key binding collisions, but otherwise they can be used together.
    - im3w1l 6y ago
      So now you are telling a noob who just wants to get some task done to start resolving key binding collisions.
      - sparkie 6y ago
        The noob probably won't even be aware of the collisions if they're a new emacs user. The org-mode keybindings will override the cua-mode bindings. Afaik, it's only shift+arrow keys. A noob can pick up emacs, type M-x cua-mode M-x org-mode and have a simple to use outliner which recognizes most of the keyboard shortcuts they're familiar with.
        im3w1l 6y ago
        Ah fair enough then

bcrosby95 6y ago

1) Is there any note taking application that makes a good spreadsheet? Just use a dedicated spreadsheet program. 2) I'm using Orgzly and yeah, it's OK. For me, OK is all I really need here since I mostly need org-mode when I'm infront of a computer. When I'm away all I really need it for is quickly adding things to do. 3) Definitely takes getting used to. I started using org-mode a couple years ago as a vim user. I've also lost a lot of time trying different apps such as Evernote, OneNote, and Trello. And setting everything up to integrate between them. Eventually I decided on markdown files for notes, but the TODO and tag integration of org-mode is what made me switch.

karlicoss 6y ago

For 3 -- I've always been a vim user, and I know maybe 3-4 native Emacs hotkeys, thanks to evil-mode. Also Spacemacs/Doom emacs provides a reasonable layer of bindings outside org-mode

samatman 6y ago

It should be possible to use monospaced fonts only for tables. They're syntax highlighted in a distinct way and that should be all you need. This is the fundamental tradeoff of emacs, basically: it's nearly always possible to get exactly what you want, in exchange for an unreasonable amount of effort.

alessivs 6y ago

> 4) I like variable width fonts, and variable width fonts don't seem to work with various bits of org mode (for example tables) Same. I use mixed-pitch[1], a package on MELPA[2] M-x package-install mixed-pitch will take care of Org tables and more. Doesn't attack the problem minimally, but comes with sensible choices; it's been basically a drop-in-and-forget activation snippet. [1]: https://gitlab.com/jabranham/mixed-pitch https://gitlab.com/jabranham/mixed-pitch [2]: https://melpa.org/#/mixed-pitch https://melpa.org/#/mixed-pitch

zelphirkalt 6y ago

I've actually found, that for me org mode spreadsheets (table with formulas) make a lot of sense and I like having them together with all other stuff I put in an org mode file. I appreciate a lot, that it is still all plain text. Once one gets the hang of using those spreadsheets and has written oneself a few examples, from which one can always copy or look things up, I think they are pretty amazing. Perhaps this is exactly the time you do not wish to spend on it, which is fine. Just saying, that for many purposes those spreadsheets work very well. There is after all GNU Calc behind them and if you want a complete programming language in form of Elisp as well. Power they do not lack, that is for sure.

allarm 6y ago

1) org-mode makes a good spreadsheet 2) Not being Android user myself, I have only heard good things about Orgzly from Emacs people around. What features exactly are you missing? 3) you can use any keys you want with Emacs. I have my own setup that I am using along with the Vim key bindings/text objects. 4) pretty much everything else works well with fonts and colors; tables yeah, tend to keep simple formatting. Emacs is not ideal. But it is the most flexible and configurable piece of software in the world - and org-mode is the best outliner ever created.

CJefferson 6y ago
Thanks, I hope this will be useful for other people! 1) When I google for some advanced operations (like multi-column sort), the advice seemed to be export as CSV and do it in openoffice. 2) While orgzly is a good attempt, if you google around you will find lots of limitations (it's too long since I've used it), as it is a reimplementation of org-mode so can't hope to be feature complete.