5 ms·

I can understand the FDAs reluctance for home tests. They do want to make sure people aren't getting false negatives from degradation during transport. That see

I can understand the FDAs reluctance for home tests. They do want to make sure people aren't getting false negatives from degradation during transport. That seems like a legitimate concern. But what I think is a greater concern, are civil rights. Several states are now giving the addresses, and sometimes names, of people who test positive for CoV-2 to law enforcement officials[0,1], and apparently health an human services used some legal gymnastics to claim that this somehow doesn't violate HIPPA[2]. You might be tempted to say "Well this situation is special," but before you do, imagine if we started doing contact tracing on people infected with HIV. [0] https://tennesseelookout.com/2020/05/08/health-department-gives-names-addresses-of-tennesseans-with-covid-19-to-law-enforcement/ https://tennesseelookout.com/2020/05/08/health-department-gi... [1] https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/most-states-sharing-coronavirus-patients-addresses-with-law-enforcement-report-says/ar-BB14kBGn https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/most-states-sharing-corona... [2] https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/covid-19-hipaa-and-first-responders-508.pdf https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/covid-19-hipaa-and-f...

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
We do contact tracing on people infected with HIV. It would be a public health disaster if we didn’t.
- djsumdog 6y ago
  We do? I thought with HIV in the US, the patient has to voluntarily notify partners. I guess that's technically contact tracing, but does it involve health departments keeping a registry of infected individuals?
  - watwut 6y ago
    > I guess that's technically contact tracing, It is contract tracing. No technically modifier needed. > the patient has to voluntarily notify partners It is either "has to" or "voluntary" depending on state. It can be crime not to notify past partners. It can also be a crime to not warn people about your HIV positive test or otherwise put them at risk of getting it.
- anon102010 6y ago
  Most places do partner notification vs provider contract tracing for HIV. Other diseases such as TB generally get contact tracing under CDC guidelines - more effective and there is less stigma. Partner notification in some countries with high HIV rates have shown somewhat poor behavior changes and/or notification rates - but health authorities there dont trace TB or HIV regularly given limited resources
spockz 6y ago
It is not just about degradation during transport. The samples need to be taken from deep in the throat and high up in the nasal cavity. This hurts quite badly. If the sample is taken from too low the chance on a false negative result are quite significant.
- James_Henry 6y ago
  The FDA guidelines say that this isn't necessary, just preferred: https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/emergency-situations-medical-devices/faqs-testing-sars-cov-2#troubleobtainingviraltransport https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/emergency-situations-med...
lostlogin 6y ago
> But what I think is a greater concern, are civil rights. Several states are now giving the addresses, and sometimes names, of people who test positive for CoV-2 to law enforcement officials[0,1], and apparently health an human services used some legal gymnastics to claim that this somehow doesn't violate HIPPA[2]. 100,000 deaths in the US today. Presumably there is a point at which you would see it as ok to restrict movement, contact trace and infringement on your liberty. What point would that be?
- djsumdog 6y ago
  So what is the endgame again? Is it eradication? That seems completely non-feasible without truly draconian measures. If it's not eradication, if it's just "flattening the curve," that's already happened in most of the world: https://battlepenguin.com/politics/this-is-not-a-time-of-honor/#the-goalposts-keep-moving https://battlepenguin.com/politics/this-is-not-a-time-of-hon... Oncologists are talking about how they haven't seen new patients for two months or more. Even with clinics open, people are afraid to come in. Time is critical in some cancers. How many people will die because they've progressed to stage 2 cancers without diagnosis? How many people have already died from heart conditions because they were afraid to go to hospital. What happens when the 2nd order effects hit half of that 100,000 number? This thing is most likely going to be a part of our environment and ecosystem. People are going to continue to die until this burns out, and that might happen before Gavi/Gates/whoever gets their vaccine through clinical trials. So far, people have mostly been doing what has been asked, not by force. But we've been fed so much conflicting information, we are so scared and risk adverse, and our governments seek so many more powers in order to protect us, and so many people have lost their jobs, savings, businesses and livings, that there is justification for peoples' concerns. When it comes to civil liberties, we're talking about basic rights. We're talking about the question: Who owns you? Liberty isn't some hobby or thought experiment. Liberty is most precious in times like these, when people frame claiming one's liberty as selfishness and a threat to order.
  - lostlogin 6y ago
    > So what is the endgame again? Is it eradication? That seems completely non-feasible without truly draconian measures. Eradication is the goal where I am in New Zealand. We have had 1 or 2 cases in the last week and seem on track to keep that up or improve. Restrictions are loosening fast now.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

We do contact tracing on people infected with HIV. It would be a public health disaster if we didn’t.

djsumdog 6y ago
We do? I thought with HIV in the US, the patient has to voluntarily notify partners. I guess that's technically contact tracing, but does it involve health departments keeping a registry of infected individuals?
- watwut 6y ago
  > I guess that's technically contact tracing, It is contract tracing. No technically modifier needed. > the patient has to voluntarily notify partners It is either "has to" or "voluntary" depending on state. It can be crime not to notify past partners. It can also be a crime to not warn people about your HIV positive test or otherwise put them at risk of getting it.
anon102010 6y ago
Most places do partner notification vs provider contract tracing for HIV. Other diseases such as TB generally get contact tracing under CDC guidelines - more effective and there is less stigma. Partner notification in some countries with high HIV rates have shown somewhat poor behavior changes and/or notification rates - but health authorities there dont trace TB or HIV regularly given limited resources

spockz 6y ago

It is not just about degradation during transport. The samples need to be taken from deep in the throat and high up in the nasal cavity. This hurts quite badly. If the sample is taken from too low the chance on a false negative result are quite significant.

James_Henry 6y ago
The FDA guidelines say that this isn't necessary, just preferred: https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/emergency-situations-medical-devices/faqs-testing-sars-cov-2#troubleobtainingviraltransport https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/emergency-situations-med...

lostlogin 6y ago

> But what I think is a greater concern, are civil rights. Several states are now giving the addresses, and sometimes names, of people who test positive for CoV-2 to law enforcement officials[0,1], and apparently health an human services used some legal gymnastics to claim that this somehow doesn't violate HIPPA[2]. 100,000 deaths in the US today. Presumably there is a point at which you would see it as ok to restrict movement, contact trace and infringement on your liberty. What point would that be?

djsumdog 6y ago
So what is the endgame again? Is it eradication? That seems completely non-feasible without truly draconian measures. If it's not eradication, if it's just "flattening the curve," that's already happened in most of the world: https://battlepenguin.com/politics/this-is-not-a-time-of-honor/#the-goalposts-keep-moving https://battlepenguin.com/politics/this-is-not-a-time-of-hon... Oncologists are talking about how they haven't seen new patients for two months or more. Even with clinics open, people are afraid to come in. Time is critical in some cancers. How many people will die because they've progressed to stage 2 cancers without diagnosis? How many people have already died from heart conditions because they were afraid to go to hospital. What happens when the 2nd order effects hit half of that 100,000 number? This thing is most likely going to be a part of our environment and ecosystem. People are going to continue to die until this burns out, and that might happen before Gavi/Gates/whoever gets their vaccine through clinical trials. So far, people have mostly been doing what has been asked, not by force. But we've been fed so much conflicting information, we are so scared and risk adverse, and our governments seek so many more powers in order to protect us, and so many people have lost their jobs, savings, businesses and livings, that there is justification for peoples' concerns. When it comes to civil liberties, we're talking about basic rights. We're talking about the question: Who owns you? Liberty isn't some hobby or thought experiment. Liberty is most precious in times like these, when people frame claiming one's liberty as selfishness and a threat to order.
- lostlogin 6y ago
  > So what is the endgame again? Is it eradication? That seems completely non-feasible without truly draconian measures. Eradication is the goal where I am in New Zealand. We have had 1 or 2 cases in the last week and seem on track to keep that up or improve. Restrictions are loosening fast now.