3 ms·

Intelligence Without Reason (1991) [pdf]

86 points by headalgorithm 6y ago

elcritch 6y ago
FYI, this is one of the papers discussed in a critique of peer review by author in post discussed recently on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23280372 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23280372 . It's been on my list to read, so it's great to have a link! What's surprising to me is a paper that's been cited over 1,000 times had such a difficult time getting published in the first place. It reminds me of a piece of advice for startup ideas that if everyone agrees with you it's probably a bad startup idea, but on the other hand if only a small number agree with you it might be a valuable insight and startup idea. That's a terrible paraphrase, I think, from a PG essay? A similar thing occurs in science it seems, especially in fields where it's harder to test/verify. Truly revolutionary ideas will often be greeted with more skepticism by experts in a field.
- austincheney 6y ago
  > That's a terrible paraphrase, I think, from a PG essay? PG likes to use the phrase counter intuitive. The idea, in fewest words, strive for originality/disruption not acceptance. Original ideas are not instantly popular as most people fear originality.
  - bra-ket 6y ago
    but dumb ideas are often counterintuitive and not instantly popular, so how do you tell them from good ideas
    - maxerickson 6y ago
      Just write a lot so it matters less.
    - austincheney 6y ago
      Good: It achieves product/market fit and solves its stated problem.
    - marcosdumay 6y ago
      And, of course, if there was a recipe for that, those ideas wouldn't be counterintuitive (at least on this context) anymore, and wouldn't be good anymore. So, no, nobody can tell you.
    - ouid 6y ago
      easy, survivor bias.
  - sammalloy 6y ago
    > Original ideas are not instantly popular as most people fear originality There’s also an acclimatization process. New ideas take time for people to adjust to them. You see this all the time in the arts, for example. Original works of music and film that are truly groundbreaking, can take years for people to learn to appreciate. The response the public had to the unveiling of the Tesla Cybertruck is a great example of this phenomenon in action.
    - mrob 6y ago
      I don't think the Cybertruck's styling is truly groundbreaking. It looks to me like a simplified and exaggerated version of the Lamborghini Countach's angular bodywork. And I'm not even particularly interested in cars, so that's just a famous example I happened to know, not the oldest. See this earlier work (1968) from the Countach's designer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfa_Romeo_Carabo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfa_Romeo_Carabo Maybe it goes back even earlier than that.
      - sammalloy 6y ago
        > I don’t think the Cybertruck’s styling is truly groundbreaking. Oh, I agree with you. It’s not the style per se, that I’m referring to here, so that was a poor choice of words on my part. I’m referring to the overall package, the new product as an offering in the truck market. I mean, the majority of people targeted here for this truck are at a loss for words. They literally don’t know what to make of it. These are people who are happy to choose between a typical, mainstream 4x4 style. But when given this choice, they loose the ability to speak. Have you noticed this phenomenon? This is what I’m talking about.
sytelus 6y ago
Another relevant paper is Intelligence Without Representation https://people.csail.mit.edu/brooks/papers/representation.pdf https://people.csail.mit.edu/brooks/papers/representation.pd...

86 points by headalgorithm 6y ago

FYI, this is one of the papers discussed in a critique of peer review by author in post discussed recently on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23280372 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23280372 . It's been on my list to read, so it's great to have a link! What's surprising to me is a paper that's been cited over 1,000 times had such a difficult time getting published in the first place. It reminds me of a piece of advice for startup ideas that if everyone agrees with you it's probably a bad startup idea, but on the other hand if only a small number agree with you it might be a valuable insight and startup idea. That's a terrible paraphrase, I think, from a PG essay? A similar thing occurs in science it seems, especially in fields where it's harder to test/verify. Truly revolutionary ideas will often be greeted with more skepticism by experts in a field.

austincheney 6y ago
> That's a terrible paraphrase, I think, from a PG essay? PG likes to use the phrase counter intuitive. The idea, in fewest words, strive for originality/disruption not acceptance. Original ideas are not instantly popular as most people fear originality.
- bra-ket 6y ago
  but dumb ideas are often counterintuitive and not instantly popular, so how do you tell them from good ideas
  - maxerickson 6y ago
    Just write a lot so it matters less.
  - austincheney 6y ago
    Good: It achieves product/market fit and solves its stated problem.
  - marcosdumay 6y ago
    And, of course, if there was a recipe for that, those ideas wouldn't be counterintuitive (at least on this context) anymore, and wouldn't be good anymore. So, no, nobody can tell you.
  - ouid 6y ago
    easy, survivor bias.
- sammalloy 6y ago
  > Original ideas are not instantly popular as most people fear originality There’s also an acclimatization process. New ideas take time for people to adjust to them. You see this all the time in the arts, for example. Original works of music and film that are truly groundbreaking, can take years for people to learn to appreciate. The response the public had to the unveiling of the Tesla Cybertruck is a great example of this phenomenon in action.
  - mrob 6y ago
    I don't think the Cybertruck's styling is truly groundbreaking. It looks to me like a simplified and exaggerated version of the Lamborghini Countach's angular bodywork. And I'm not even particularly interested in cars, so that's just a famous example I happened to know, not the oldest. See this earlier work (1968) from the Countach's designer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfa_Romeo_Carabo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfa_Romeo_Carabo Maybe it goes back even earlier than that.
    - sammalloy 6y ago
      > I don’t think the Cybertruck’s styling is truly groundbreaking. Oh, I agree with you. It’s not the style per se, that I’m referring to here, so that was a poor choice of words on my part. I’m referring to the overall package, the new product as an offering in the truck market. I mean, the majority of people targeted here for this truck are at a loss for words. They literally don’t know what to make of it. These are people who are happy to choose between a typical, mainstream 4x4 style. But when given this choice, they loose the ability to speak. Have you noticed this phenomenon? This is what I’m talking about.

sytelus 6y ago

Another relevant paper is Intelligence Without Representation https://people.csail.mit.edu/brooks/papers/representation.pdf https://people.csail.mit.edu/brooks/papers/representation.pd...