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I'm not sure about the articles, but my SO had worked nights in the ICU just outside of NYC for the past two months. Notes from her: - They quadrupled ICU capa
by sndean 6y ago
I'm not sure about the articles, but my SO had worked nights in the ICU just outside of NYC for the past two months. Notes from her:
- They quadrupled ICU capacity, taking over empty hospital beds from elsewhere in the hospital. At one point the only patients were COVID. No other admissions.
- Out-of-work doctors like cardiologists, soldiers, out-of-state nurses came in to help. They didn't know what to do in the ICU, so they mostly got in the way.
- At the peak they needed about double the normal number of beds.
- Most 12-hours shifts were done without sitting or having time to go to the bathroom.
So they overestimated the flood of COVID patients and were able to deal with it, possibly because they over-prepared, and there were essentially no non-COVID patients. At least that's n=1 ICU physician's perspective. Her friends in difference cities seem to have had similar experience (all east coast doctors, though), but the only overwhelmed ones are in NYC metro.
- fooker 6y agoSo, they were not overwhelmed?
- sndean 6y agoThat specific hospital wasn't. But, again: > At the peak they needed about double the normal number of beds. If they had not been able to annex a portion of the hospital for more beds, they probably would've been overwhelmed. Most of the people with normal things (heart attacks, severe diabetes-related issues, alcohol withdraw, etc.) stayed home, so they were able to create more capacity. I think every hospital did the same, so there's no good control group.
- simonh 6y agoCompleting 12 hour shifts without a moments break isn’t overwhelmed? Read this article about two of the nurses in NY that committed suicide due to the stress of watching patients die and not having the resources to help them, then tell me those people were not overwhelmed. https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/04/28/emts-a28.html https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/04/28/emts-a28.html
- SpicyLemonZest 6y agoWaving people's deaths around like this is crass and offensive. It's very sad that these nurses died, but when people say "overwhelmed" in this context they mean that people cannot obtain healthcare.
- simonh 6y agoOh I see, the human cost to health care workers doesn’t count. Got it. Maybe your threshold for what counts as ‘getting health care’ is different from mine. For me it amounts to more up than just being physically in a hospital. If the people described below were your family, would you be satisfied with their health care? "Some of them, bless their souls, can't do anything for themselves," she said. "How can I take care of 14 people when I have one tech and they have 30 patients. It's so bad here you guys." https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronavirus-new-york-nurse-breaks-down-cries-dead-covid19-patients-a9460301.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronaviru...
- SpicyLemonZest 6y agoYou know you're being dishonest here and I'm not going to engage.
- simonh 6y agoThat’s a real shame. I just don’t understand at all where you’re coming from, or in what way I’m being dishonest. To me is seems straightforward to say that a system that is no longer able to provide an acceptable standard of care to a majority, or large minority if it’s patients, has been pushed beyond its capacity.
- TeaDrunk 6y agoI’m under the impression that this is in fact what an overwhelmed health care system looks like. That the people in the system would rather die than continue being in it. This is also how we measure the despair of poverty.
- notyourday 6y agoIn the beginning of March Mayo Clinic circulated a COVID ICU protocol which virtually everybody implemented. Cleveland Clinic had something similar though NYC, Philadelphia and Baltimore hospital systems went with Mayo. It had metrics and trigger points at which point different units at hospitals were converted into COVID ICUs. Such protocols are absolutely standard for any large scale disaster scenarios. "Overwhelmed" means "handling of this event is not in a protocol". That has never happened. 2x the normal ICU beds was would not have triggered even the 2nd implementation of a second phase.
- BubRoss 6y agoThat is an insane redefinition and goal post moving.
- notyourday 6y agoIt is not. It is exactly the same as event one's AWS installation has a capacity problem. You do sort of have that plan, don't you?
- TeaDrunk 6y agoIf I attempt at AWS load balancing was “cut down all other services for the purpose of this particular services up to and including the full shut down of other services to divert to this service” I would definitely say this instance is wildly out of hand and an unacceptable state and that we may need to evaluate if this is temporary or if we need to grab more AWS $$$.
- notyourday 6y agoYou just described the plan. That's exactly what it is.
- BubRoss 6y agoThis definition you have concocted isn't real. Just because everyone stops what they are doing and starts bailing water out of a boat doesn't mean the boat isn't flooded. You can't hallucinate some new definition for being overwhelmed and then say New York hospitals weren't overwhelmed. That is not rational.