7 ms·

Except that they'll contract it, spread it to their family, some of them will actually die of it, and a lot more will suffer long term side effects that may be

Except that they'll contract it, spread it to their family, some of them will actually die of it, and a lot more will suffer long term side effects that may be subtle but still dangerous. For example, this disease seems to cause blood clots. You could be fully recovered and drop dead half a year later from a clot breaking loose and getting lodged in your heart.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
Even if it's as risky as you're implying, which I'm not sure it is, I think a lot of people would do it anyway. Drunk driving is surely a stupider risk, but it happens all the time.
- HarryHirsch 6y ago
  Drunk driving is surely a stupider risk, but it happens all the time It happens very much for the same reason: it's good for business. Can you imagine the local cops and especially the local judges get serious on DUI's and hand out real prison sentences (5 or 10 years for first offense) for drunk driving? I can't. The local restaurateurs would be dead set against it.
  - godelski 6y ago
    There's plenty of evidence that draconian laws aren't effective. So I'm not sure that a 5-10 year sentence would stop people from drunk driving. Plus, I'm pretty sure the corrections lobby has more power than the restaurant lobbies.
gruez 6y ago
>For example, this disease seems to cause blood clots. You could be fully recovered and drop dead half a year later from a clot breaking loose and getting lodged in your heart. Isn't blood clots a side effect from lying in hospital beds all day, rather than the disease itself?
- HarryHirsch 6y ago
  No. Coronaplague-related coagulopathies are well-documented.
- JulianMorrison 6y ago
  It seems to be an endothelial disease. And it causes blood to clot in small vessels all over the body. This may be a mechanism by which is damages the lungs (as well as broken off clots lodging there).
Slartie 6y ago
> spread it to their family Family, friends, grandparents, colleagues at work. And those will undoubtedly spread it further, until it eventually reaches people that it actually kills. There simply is no way to safely perform a deliberate "self-infection" in order to get antibodies other than by committing to a radical externally-enforced quarantine for the duration of the infection. And I personally wouldn't trust most of the prime candidates for such a self-infection (young adults fed up with the lack of parties and entertainment) to be responsible enough for that, which is why I confront any ideas that might incentivize such behavior, like immunity passports, with extreme doubt and caution.
- JulianMorrison 6y ago
  They'd have to quarantine from the moment of potential infection too, because of asymptomatic spread.
  - Slartie 6y ago
    When talking about deliberate self-infection, I assumed that there was no "possible" infection. If someone self-infects in an organized fashion, he knows exactly with nearly 100% certainty the point in time at which he became infected, because that would be when he exposed himself to the virus deliberately in a way that practically guarantees a successful infection.
godelski 6y ago
I'm not sure what you mean. You act like you can just go through life and never contract covid. Even if somehow we get a vaccine in a year (which would be a technological marvel) it looks like most people will get it. So why not get it in a controlled environment where you can minimize contact and spread while gaining immunity (which is what we want young and healthy to do so that we can build herd immunity)? Will there be risks and accidents? Of course, nothing is perfect. But some control sounds like a much better environment than just letting it happen completely uncontrolled.
- HarryHirsch 6y ago
  The Chinese, the South Koreans and the New Zealanders managed to eradicate coronaplague through good old epidemiological detective work. It's looking good in the European countries, too, number of new infections declining. Why isn't this discussed in the context of the US? (Answer: you'd need proper testing, paid sick leave and especially paid quarantine, but that kind of public health measures is politically unthinkable. My institution "recommends" quarantine for potentially exposed workers, and that isn't enough.)
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    The Chinese and the South Koreans did not eradicate it and do not expect they'll be able to. 100 million people are under lockdown orders in China right now.
    - HarryHirsch 6y ago
      The number of new infections in South Korea is low, and I fully expect the Koreans to squash any new clusters that may appear. It helps that the population is onboard with the public health measures; when they had that cluster that originated in a nightspot they promptly shut down nightspots again, and that didn't trigger protests. The Chinese have that problem with their porous border with Russia and North Korea, where the pestilence is uncontrolled. It's a continuous source of new cases, but I expect that these will not spread far.
- 6y ago

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

Even if it's as risky as you're implying, which I'm not sure it is, I think a lot of people would do it anyway. Drunk driving is surely a stupider risk, but it happens all the time.

HarryHirsch 6y ago
Drunk driving is surely a stupider risk, but it happens all the time It happens very much for the same reason: it's good for business. Can you imagine the local cops and especially the local judges get serious on DUI's and hand out real prison sentences (5 or 10 years for first offense) for drunk driving? I can't. The local restaurateurs would be dead set against it.
- godelski 6y ago
  There's plenty of evidence that draconian laws aren't effective. So I'm not sure that a 5-10 year sentence would stop people from drunk driving. Plus, I'm pretty sure the corrections lobby has more power than the restaurant lobbies.

gruez 6y ago

>For example, this disease seems to cause blood clots. You could be fully recovered and drop dead half a year later from a clot breaking loose and getting lodged in your heart. Isn't blood clots a side effect from lying in hospital beds all day, rather than the disease itself?

HarryHirsch 6y ago
No. Coronaplague-related coagulopathies are well-documented.
JulianMorrison 6y ago
It seems to be an endothelial disease. And it causes blood to clot in small vessels all over the body. This may be a mechanism by which is damages the lungs (as well as broken off clots lodging there).

Slartie 6y ago

> spread it to their family Family, friends, grandparents, colleagues at work. And those will undoubtedly spread it further, until it eventually reaches people that it actually kills. There simply is no way to safely perform a deliberate "self-infection" in order to get antibodies other than by committing to a radical externally-enforced quarantine for the duration of the infection. And I personally wouldn't trust most of the prime candidates for such a self-infection (young adults fed up with the lack of parties and entertainment) to be responsible enough for that, which is why I confront any ideas that might incentivize such behavior, like immunity passports, with extreme doubt and caution.

JulianMorrison 6y ago
They'd have to quarantine from the moment of potential infection too, because of asymptomatic spread.
- Slartie 6y ago
  When talking about deliberate self-infection, I assumed that there was no "possible" infection. If someone self-infects in an organized fashion, he knows exactly with nearly 100% certainty the point in time at which he became infected, because that would be when he exposed himself to the virus deliberately in a way that practically guarantees a successful infection.

godelski 6y ago

I'm not sure what you mean. You act like you can just go through life and never contract covid. Even if somehow we get a vaccine in a year (which would be a technological marvel) it looks like most people will get it. So why not get it in a controlled environment where you can minimize contact and spread while gaining immunity (which is what we want young and healthy to do so that we can build herd immunity)? Will there be risks and accidents? Of course, nothing is perfect. But some control sounds like a much better environment than just letting it happen completely uncontrolled.

HarryHirsch 6y ago
The Chinese, the South Koreans and the New Zealanders managed to eradicate coronaplague through good old epidemiological detective work. It's looking good in the European countries, too, number of new infections declining. Why isn't this discussed in the context of the US? (Answer: you'd need proper testing, paid sick leave and especially paid quarantine, but that kind of public health measures is politically unthinkable. My institution "recommends" quarantine for potentially exposed workers, and that isn't enough.)
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  The Chinese and the South Koreans did not eradicate it and do not expect they'll be able to. 100 million people are under lockdown orders in China right now.
  - HarryHirsch 6y ago
    The number of new infections in South Korea is low, and I fully expect the Koreans to squash any new clusters that may appear. It helps that the population is onboard with the public health measures; when they had that cluster that originated in a nightspot they promptly shut down nightspots again, and that didn't trigger protests. The Chinese have that problem with their porous border with Russia and North Korea, where the pestilence is uncontrolled. It's a continuous source of new cases, but I expect that these will not spread far.
6y ago