4 ms·

How is it "poor faith"? I legitimately believe it to be true. Moreover, if one conducts the experiment on themselves, porn usage then no-fap...they would obser

by PKop 6y ago

How is it "poor faith"? I legitimately believe it to be true. Moreover, if one conducts the experiment on themselves, porn usage then no-fap...they would observe the effect themselves. Not ever attempting to do so then defending porn is itself a bad-faith argument. Many of these cultural type of debates have wider philosophical/political baggage that precludes and unbiased discussion. Often it just comes down to what one thinks of a certain thing... like that porn usage is degenerate and unhealthy. What would a study do to oppose that argument? Do you doubt that the researcher in the video found evidence of brain effects similar to narcotics? No matter what evidence was presented, TED would say the same thing as they have a political angle to defend.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
It's poor faith because it means anyone engaging with you has to drag themselves through the mud, either silently accepting your characterization that they're an addict or posting a defensive disclaimer that they're totally not.
- PKop 6y ago
  Sure.. maybe my point is I'm certainly not looking for a debate with someone that would deny it. I wouldn't view them as a serious person, because of the self evident nature of what we would be "debating"
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    If you don’t want to hear from someone who doesn’t agree with you, I agree you’re not looking for a debate. The word instead is preaching. (There’s not necessarily anything wrong with that, but it’s a quite different activity with a propensity to convince primarily people who already agree with you.)
saagarjha 6y ago
You are welcome to believe anything you like, but when you try to convince other people of your viewpoint you must provide supporting evidence for it, while refraining from doing the things I mentioned. I do appreciate that your claim is actually testable, so that is a plus, although I cannot say that experimenting on myself is a great idea nor am I sure what effect I should be searching for. An actual study may have a hypothesis like "porn usage causes an increase of rates of depression or success in relationships" and then you could actually measure that and try to see if there was an actual difference (keeping in mind that such topics are often difficult to study, because people often lie and social sciences are often fuzzy anyways.) By the way, the "effects similar to narcotics" isn't really that great of a qualifier; for example, any pleasurable experience releases dopamine, whether it be hard, addictive drugs or spending time with your family. It would be absurd to try to continue an argument on that, wouldn't it?
- PKop 6y ago
  >any pleasurable experience releases dopamine This is a distinction of degree then perhaps. But you're on the right track. Spending time with your family is a good thing. Pursuing more drug usage and porn usage is not, not least of which because they'd probably lead to less "spending time with family" or no family at all. That drugs and porn occupy your time, and reward you for it, and again, in an extreme way (large reward.. not just "reward") is the entire point. >nor am I sure what effect I should be searching for That you are even considering what you should be searching for is commendable. Most people here wouldn't even take the time to run the thought experiment or grant that self experiment is valid evidence. Nor would they go read no-fap discussions listing countless, endless examples of drastic improvements in individuals lives from before/after. >keeping in mind that such topics are often difficult to study Yep. And there are a lot of variables. See why waiting for a study is kinda silly? We don't need it. Though I'm sure there are or could be some good ones, those searching for the perfect one when self experience would show them all they would need, or 500 anecdotes. Again, it's self evident for anyone who puts in a bit of time willing to consider. Those that want to rationalize their unhealthy behavior will hold out, perpetually, for study. Persuading those people is a lost cause. I think we can just take the heuristic of looking at how endless supply of novel, virtually "real" (to the brain) sexual stimulus is something never before existing in human history. We can point to delay and decline in marriage, birth rates, and family formation. Stories of teenagers and young children being exposed to hard core pornography early and finding themselves with a habit that leads to depression, anxiety, apathy, marriage problems for adults etc. They're out there. Nobody wants to do this study, but we can use our common sense and intuition anyways.

by PKop 6y ago

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

It's poor faith because it means anyone engaging with you has to drag themselves through the mud, either silently accepting your characterization that they're an addict or posting a defensive disclaimer that they're totally not.

PKop 6y ago
Sure.. maybe my point is I'm certainly not looking for a debate with someone that would deny it. I wouldn't view them as a serious person, because of the self evident nature of what we would be "debating"
- sokoloff 6y ago
  If you don’t want to hear from someone who doesn’t agree with you, I agree you’re not looking for a debate. The word instead is preaching. (There’s not necessarily anything wrong with that, but it’s a quite different activity with a propensity to convince primarily people who already agree with you.)

saagarjha 6y ago

You are welcome to believe anything you like, but when you try to convince other people of your viewpoint you must provide supporting evidence for it, while refraining from doing the things I mentioned. I do appreciate that your claim is actually testable, so that is a plus, although I cannot say that experimenting on myself is a great idea nor am I sure what effect I should be searching for. An actual study may have a hypothesis like "porn usage causes an increase of rates of depression or success in relationships" and then you could actually measure that and try to see if there was an actual difference (keeping in mind that such topics are often difficult to study, because people often lie and social sciences are often fuzzy anyways.) By the way, the "effects similar to narcotics" isn't really that great of a qualifier; for example, any pleasurable experience releases dopamine, whether it be hard, addictive drugs or spending time with your family. It would be absurd to try to continue an argument on that, wouldn't it?

PKop 6y ago
>any pleasurable experience releases dopamine This is a distinction of degree then perhaps. But you're on the right track. Spending time with your family is a good thing. Pursuing more drug usage and porn usage is not, not least of which because they'd probably lead to less "spending time with family" or no family at all. That drugs and porn occupy your time, and reward you for it, and again, in an extreme way (large reward.. not just "reward") is the entire point. >nor am I sure what effect I should be searching for That you are even considering what you should be searching for is commendable. Most people here wouldn't even take the time to run the thought experiment or grant that self experiment is valid evidence. Nor would they go read no-fap discussions listing countless, endless examples of drastic improvements in individuals lives from before/after. >keeping in mind that such topics are often difficult to study Yep. And there are a lot of variables. See why waiting for a study is kinda silly? We don't need it. Though I'm sure there are or could be some good ones, those searching for the perfect one when self experience would show them all they would need, or 500 anecdotes. Again, it's self evident for anyone who puts in a bit of time willing to consider. Those that want to rationalize their unhealthy behavior will hold out, perpetually, for study. Persuading those people is a lost cause. I think we can just take the heuristic of looking at how endless supply of novel, virtually "real" (to the brain) sexual stimulus is something never before existing in human history. We can point to delay and decline in marriage, birth rates, and family formation. Stories of teenagers and young children being exposed to hard core pornography early and finding themselves with a habit that leads to depression, anxiety, apathy, marriage problems for adults etc. They're out there. Nobody wants to do this study, but we can use our common sense and intuition anyways.