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I hated the look of LaTeX documents when I first started university, especially the font. I don't know what happened, but I eventually fell in love Computer Mod
by jjice 6y ago
I hated the look of LaTeX documents when I first started university, especially the font. I don't know what happened, but I eventually fell in love Computer Modern. Something about it just looks great. Maybe it's just Stockholm Syndrome.
- nbrempel 6y agoI feel the same way. I had a good laugh at your Stockholm Syndrome comment!
- atrettel 6y agoI think a lot of people go through a life cycle of Computer Modern. I originally was indifferent, but once I learned LaTeX I used it since it was the default and it signaled to people that I knew LaTeX. Now I prefer Utopia/Fourier instead. Computer Modern seems to "thin", in my opinion, but I still use it on occasion. Some colleagues of mine really love it, though. I can see why some people like it since it's the default font for a lot of technical documents and seeing it often signifies a certain level of "quality". The documents generally look better than Word documents, for example. Moreover, if an author took the time to learn LaTeX, it is easy to assume that they know what they are talking about. This is a form of "honor by association" (opposite of guilt by association fallacy). Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/1301/ https://xkcd.com/1301/
- elSidCampeador 6y agoI loved Computer Modern till I read your post. Now I wanna move to Fourier for good - thanks for that!
- TheRealPomax 6y agoMaybe have a look at XeLaTeX (the unicode-by-default LaTeX), which lets you just use any modern font you have installed, using normal syntax.
- improbable22 6y agoDoes the arxiv accept xetex yet? That's one constraint which kept me away.
- TheRealPomax 6y agoIf it doesn't, someone needs to raise a stink. It's been in TeX Live for over a decade now, there is no excuse for not supporting it.
- shakna 6y agoOfficially? No. > Anything that relies on something other than TeX or (PDF)LaTeX will fail. At this time arXiv does not support processing with: XeTeX and its variants including LuaTeX, LyX, or PDFTeX. [0] However, you'll frequently see papers with: > Comments: PDF file generated using XeLaTeX/XeTeX. Such as [1], where the author would prefer submitting a PDF-only than jump through the hoops to make it work under standard LaTeX. [0] https://arxiv.org/help/faq/mistakes https://arxiv.org/help/faq/mistakes [1] https://arxiv.org/abs/1410.4830 https://arxiv.org/abs/1410.4830
- elSidCampeador 6y agoI use XeLaTeX! Just wasn't aware of Fourier and Utopia.
- jdnier 6y agoNice! https://tug.org/FontCatalogue/utopia-fouriermath/ https://tug.org/FontCatalogue/utopia-fouriermath/ I've been away from TeX/LaTeX typesetting for a long time. That's immediately appealing.
- rwoerz 6y agoMe too. I particularly hated the lowercase 'x'. Today, I get triggered like a Pavlov's dog just by seeing LaTeX fonts.
- DavidVoid 6y agoThe problem is that it's much too thin and therefore hard to read on computer screens. I'm sure it looks great on paper printed with the old Xerox laser printers that were around when it was made, but in its current form it's just way too thin to be read on a screen. Someone on a German forum made a wider version of it which (imo) looks much better [1]. [1] https://www.typografie.info/3/topic/22238-ist-die-computer-modern-wirklich-zu-d%C3%BCnn/ https://www.typografie.info/3/topic/22238-ist-die-computer-m... Translated: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.typografie.info%2F3%2Ftopic%2F22238-ist-die-computer-modern-wirklich-zu-d%C3%BCnn%2F https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3...
- improbable22 6y agoThe heavier version looks better, but this involves messing with Metafont, which generates bitmaps. (And sadly his sample PDF links have died.) I don't know of a way to heavier outline fonts. I believe the commonly used versions aren't in fact derived smoothly from Metafont, but either fitted to the bitmaps, or drawn by hand over them. That would have been a good time to correct this sad mistake.
- chrismorgan 6y agoI strongly agree on the “too thin” point. On screen I find it an awful font, almost as bad as half the 300-weight sans-serifs too many people love to use on their websites. Computer Modern does look better printed, especially on less-accurate printers that thicken what they print. Related: the serif font Equity comes in two grades to compensate for such types of printers (though both grades are thicker than Computer Modern), and discusses the rationale for this feature: https://mbtype.com/pdf/equity-type-specimen.pdf#page=5 https://mbtype.com/pdf/equity-type-specimen.pdf#page=5
- flobosg 6y agoI had no idea one could link directly to PDF pages. Thanks for the tip!
- 6y ago
- TheRealPomax 6y agoSame, except instead of falling in love with Computer Modern, I went "oh hey, XeLaTeX lets me use fonts in a sane way" and started typesetting with modern OpenType fonts instead. So I'd argue there's at least a good chunk of Stockholm syndrome there.
- ncmncm 6y agoSame. I particularly like Linux Libertine, enough so that I make Firefox use it everywhere, even (especially?) where the page designer wanted sans. Sadly, mobile Firefox does not support that, so HN on Android is relentlessly sans.
- chrismorgan 6y agoEven if the UI is not exposed, it’s all there in about:config and should work: browser.display.use_document_fonts = 0 font.name.serif.x-western = Linux Libertine font.name.sans-serif.x-western = Linux Libertine
- ncmncm 6y agoThank you, I had already done that. (Well, "Droid Serif".) For some reason it has no visible effect. I never got the "Linux Libertine O" fonts to work in my phone. I suspect it doesn't like the file format.
- conjectures 6y agoI think it's because the font is correlated with higher-than-average quality for random docs one finds on the web.
- supernova87a 6y agoVery true -- interesting when the barrier to using the tool signifies a certain level of professionalism and investment in wanting the paper to look and read right. However, there is a part of the curve where random failed grad student and retired professors become conspiracy cranks and email you half-baked theories about the shape of the universe, typeset in Latex -- and those get through the filter unfortunately.
- quickthrower2 6y agoMany cryptocurrency “whitepapers” take advantage of the trust for this format
- sneak 6y agoThis psychological baggage was precisely why I chose it for body copy on my blog. It’s a sort of an intellectual dogwhistle.
- bmitc 6y agoI disliked Computer Modern enough that after experimenting with various free fonts, I actually purchased Michael Spivak's MathTime Professional 2 Complete fonts, and then I use a nice Times-like font. https://pctex.com/mtpro2.html https://pctex.com/mtpro2.html
- dhosek 6y agoMichael Spivak absolutely loathes CM. I remember trying to make the case for at least a few characters of the design to him poolside during one of the 80s TUG conferences and he wasn't having it.
- amelius 6y agoI hate the lack of composability of LaTeX code. What works in one environment may just break in another.
- airstrike 6y agoThe font looks god awful on my screen. Changing everything to Roboto in the linked page made it 100x more pleasant to read.
- wenc 6y agoI don't care for Computer Modern serif, but I have a soft spot for Computer Modern Sans Serif [1]. It's the default font in Beamer, and I find when I make it the default font for non-serious publications, it looks really clean and modern. I especially like its rounded edges -- makes it look Web 2.0ish. [1] https://tug.org/FontCatalogue/computermodernsansserif/ https://tug.org/FontCatalogue/computermodernsansserif/