5 ms·

Could you elaborate? His revelations were that the government kinda does what it wants despite the law; what is it that is up to me (or any other individual) to

Could you elaborate? His revelations were that the government kinda does what it wants despite the law; what is it that is up to me (or any other individual) to right the wrongs of that same government?

chrisco255 6y ago
"It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority." -Benjamin Franklin Protests and social pressure do work with the right amplitude.
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  There is no evidence that Benjamin Franklin ever said that. Please do not perpetuate spurious quotations.
  - chrisco255 6y ago
    Didn't realize that it wasn't sourced to him. I still think it's a good quote either way and given my understanding of Franklin from reading his autobiography, I reckon he would agree with it in spirit. He spent much of his life pushing against the British Empire and fighting for liberty.
irishcoffee 6y ago
This the guy everyone on this site defends: https://www.twincities.com/2013/06/15/tracking-edward-snowden-from-high-school-dropout-to-leaker-of-national-secrets/amp/ https://www.twincities.com/2013/06/15/tracking-edward-snowde... It’s hard for me to read that and think his motives were pure and unbiased.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  I see nothing in that article other than random tidbits about his life.
  - irishcoffee 6y ago
    I see nothing in your comment but a sentence made up of words.
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      (That was an invitation for you to explain why you thought the article showed some sort of ulterior motive, if you didn't catch it.)
- na85 6y ago
  It's hard for me to read the article you linked and draw any conclusions whatsoever about his motives. The whole article is just a series of vague insinuations hoping the reader is stupid enough and lacking in enough critical thinking skills to see two apparently contradictory facts like "he liked attention but played a lot of video games" and from there jump to the conclusion that he's a villain.
- dependenttypes 6y ago
  Is this supposed to be anything other than some sort of ad hominem? Why should his motives or character matter?
pembrook 6y ago
Any democratic government is simply a body elected to represent the wishes of the people. If the government isn't righting its wrongs, it's because you (not necessarily you specifically, but "the people" as a whole) have explicitly put in power the people who are doing the bad things. This is everybody's fault. Yours included. We all enabled this to happen. That's the beauty of a democratic system. It clarifies and cuts through to the core of our culture. Americans fear the idea of foreign terrorists more than we fear privacy encroachment, and thus, we were delivered the results of that belief. The system worked! It represented our wishes perfectly. The problem isn't "them" (the government). It's us.
- akiselev 6y ago
  That may have been true for Americans living two hundred years ago when constituents voted for the people who birthed the two party system, but it certainly isn't today. Gerrymandering of House districts, the limit on the number of Representatives, the nature of the Senate in our bicameral legislature, and the electoral college all guarantee that some votes will count significantly more than others. That's not a democracy, it's a facade that replaced democracy a long time ago (and one could argue was never a democracy to begin with, since many people alive today gained the right to vote in living memory).
  - godelski 6y ago
    There's two options when your government isn't doing what you (read "the people") want them to do: 1) Vote them out 2) Revolution I'm rather a firm believer that option 1 is still on the table and we don't have to resort to likely bloody methods. But in either case it is up to the people in the end. I am not convinced that there's been coalitions formed to actually do #1. I'm not actually convinced most people are upset, even though I think they should be.
  - agensaequivocum 6y ago
    We are not a democracy nor were we supposed to be.
    - 6y ago

chrisco255 6y ago

"It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority." -Benjamin Franklin Protests and social pressure do work with the right amplitude.

Mediterraneo10 6y ago
There is no evidence that Benjamin Franklin ever said that. Please do not perpetuate spurious quotations.
- chrisco255 6y ago
  Didn't realize that it wasn't sourced to him. I still think it's a good quote either way and given my understanding of Franklin from reading his autobiography, I reckon he would agree with it in spirit. He spent much of his life pushing against the British Empire and fighting for liberty.

irishcoffee 6y ago

This the guy everyone on this site defends: https://www.twincities.com/2013/06/15/tracking-edward-snowden-from-high-school-dropout-to-leaker-of-national-secrets/amp/ https://www.twincities.com/2013/06/15/tracking-edward-snowde... It’s hard for me to read that and think his motives were pure and unbiased.

saagarjha 6y ago
I see nothing in that article other than random tidbits about his life.
- irishcoffee 6y ago
  I see nothing in your comment but a sentence made up of words.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    (That was an invitation for you to explain why you thought the article showed some sort of ulterior motive, if you didn't catch it.)
na85 6y ago
It's hard for me to read the article you linked and draw any conclusions whatsoever about his motives. The whole article is just a series of vague insinuations hoping the reader is stupid enough and lacking in enough critical thinking skills to see two apparently contradictory facts like "he liked attention but played a lot of video games" and from there jump to the conclusion that he's a villain.
dependenttypes 6y ago
Is this supposed to be anything other than some sort of ad hominem? Why should his motives or character matter?

pembrook 6y ago

Any democratic government is simply a body elected to represent the wishes of the people. If the government isn't righting its wrongs, it's because you (not necessarily you specifically, but "the people" as a whole) have explicitly put in power the people who are doing the bad things. This is everybody's fault. Yours included. We all enabled this to happen. That's the beauty of a democratic system. It clarifies and cuts through to the core of our culture. Americans fear the idea of foreign terrorists more than we fear privacy encroachment, and thus, we were delivered the results of that belief. The system worked! It represented our wishes perfectly. The problem isn't "them" (the government). It's us.

akiselev 6y ago
That may have been true for Americans living two hundred years ago when constituents voted for the people who birthed the two party system, but it certainly isn't today. Gerrymandering of House districts, the limit on the number of Representatives, the nature of the Senate in our bicameral legislature, and the electoral college all guarantee that some votes will count significantly more than others. That's not a democracy, it's a facade that replaced democracy a long time ago (and one could argue was never a democracy to begin with, since many people alive today gained the right to vote in living memory).
- godelski 6y ago
  There's two options when your government isn't doing what you (read "the people") want them to do: 1) Vote them out 2) Revolution I'm rather a firm believer that option 1 is still on the table and we don't have to resort to likely bloody methods. But in either case it is up to the people in the end. I am not convinced that there's been coalitions formed to actually do #1. I'm not actually convinced most people are upset, even though I think they should be.
- agensaequivocum 6y ago
  We are not a democracy nor were we supposed to be.
  - 6y ago