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People should be warned that working remotely has been career suicide for as long as I've been in tech. Being "out of sight, out of mind" from management gener

People should be warned that working remotely has been career suicide for as long as I've been in tech. Being "out of sight, out of mind" from management generally means you're passed over for promotions, and often the first to get cut during layoffs. It's just human nature. It's easier to layoff the person that's been working from across the country (or another country) than it is to layoff the person at the desk next to you that you've worked beside for years.

christiansakai 6y ago
I think small team and good manager/team lead will mitigate this.
somebrody 6y ago
It is only suicide for in-company promotion tracks. It has no effect on your career if you learn to not depend on in-company tracks for your success.
- asah 6y ago
  "I work for Silicon Valley Inc, NameOfCompany division"
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  That's not just a matter of learning. The kinds of things you can achieve are different. If you want to become a director of some big engineering organization one day, you'll need to build up your position within the companies you work and not just your personal brand.
- nojito 6y ago
  WFH only works in theory when the economy is booming. In a recession WFH employees are going to the be first ones on the chopping block.
alkibiades 6y ago
i think therse a good subset of people who dont really care that much about their careers. atleast from my experience working at fang. they just like the high pay and WLB and dont seem to care about being promoted or advancement.
- somebrody 6y ago
  > good subset of people who dont really care that much about their careers Caring too much is a bad bargain. The companies don't care too much about you and me
  - umeshunni 6y ago
    I think OP is talking about people caring about their own careers (i.e. growth, promotions etc).
    - TeMPOraL 6y ago
      Again, not everyone wants to progress all the way to the top in their careers. The higher you go, the more your job changes into helping people help people help people do the actual work, which isn't all that appealing if you chosen a particular career because of the lower-level work being done. It's like in Star Trek, with this common advice to given to captains on the show by their friends/colleagues: never let yourself be promoted to admiral, because you'll be taken off the starship and put behind a desk to push paperwork, and that is just boring.
      - perl4ever 6y ago
        "never let yourself be promoted to admiral" This makes me think of Eisenhower, who I only found out recently apparently never saw combat, yet pretty much went to the top in his career and then became President. Whether paperwork is boring or meaningless is a subjective value judgment. What if it's the paperwork for planning D-Day? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_D._Eisenhower https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_D._Eisenhower
ody4242 6y ago
Except the case when you are considerably cheaper than the people working at the desk next to your boss.
- 121789 6y ago
  I think it's actually the opposite and I'd be wary of moving remote full time quickly at the moment. The face time with your boss while the rest of the team is remote would be hugely beneficial to your career.
  - mech422 6y ago
    Again, as I stated above...I've had the totally opposite experience. I've been promoted and survived layoffs multiple times while working 100% remote.
    - 121789 6y ago
      I understand and certainly see where that could be the case, especially for steady-state companies. All I'm saying here is that in the context of the current situation, where you have companies transitioning from non-remote to remote, it's likely in your best interest to wait a bit while the company has to deal with how to evaluate/train/communicate with a mostly remote workforce. In the worst case you have to deal with the office for another year or so with no change. In the best case, you are better positioned for a promotion/raise. Either way, you will learn how others are managing remote work throughout the year. I'm on the long-term-remote path, but I want to see how this plays the rest of the year before making the jump.
      - mech422 6y ago
        Nothing wrong with being cautious... While you're waiting, you might start planning _how_ you will work from home. A good home setup can make all the difference, and can involve expenses like good office chairs, desk, computer, upgraded internet service, etc. Might be a good time to look around the house what you need, where you're gonna put it, etc.
enitihas 6y ago
I agree with you. Anyone working in a big enough company should already know the difference between being at HQ where you are near senior leadership, and being anywhere else.
lowiqengineer 6y ago
I'm __guessing__ that Facebook will have fully remote teams and orgs where this is less of a problem and will have ample opportunities to come to HQ. They fucking send their interns to other offices multiple times during an internship!
atwebb 6y ago
Counterpoint, it allowed me to be more productive and invest time into learning and career growth that otherwise wouldn't been spent in meetings or commuting.
mech422 6y ago
Having worked remotely for decades, and survived a few layoffs, I beg to differ. If your job security rests on the boss seeing your face, many currently unemployed people will tell you, its not very secure.
beager 6y ago
Disagree that what you wrote constitutes "career suicide". - Being targeted for layoffs says more about the company you work for and less about your own career. - Passed over for promotions is again saying a lot about the company, and many folks who work in offices still have to change jobs to get career advancement. I, for one, believe that cultivating remote work competencies that hedge against either of those things is a valuable career skill. It means you can't schmooze your way in person through career growth, you have to do it by demonstrating real value to companies that will value you fairly.
proverbialbunny 6y ago
Often times a single person in a group working remote can cause problems. It's only when the entire team is remote at the same time, either entirely or partially on the same days, does remote stop becoming a concern in the ways you mention. Teams tend to do better when they're sharing remote or sharing coming in. Teams tend to do the best (ymmv) when they're full remote but are local, so they can come in as much as they want to meetup when it is beneficial to do so.
rongenre 6y ago
Working fully remote also means your hunt for your next job is really difficult. One of the upsides of working in a tech hub isn't just the job you have, but the next job you can find.
gdubs 6y ago
Even if this were true in the past, this would certainly be changed with the more level playing field of more and more people working remotely.
jejeyyy77 6y ago
Truth. Funny that so many people are disagreeing with this. I’ve worked at many companies with remote employees as well as being remote myself, as well as companies that were fully remote. Unless everyone is remote , and there is no office then it is career suicide. You will forever be the “remote guy”. You won’t be involved in discussions involving direction of the company, product, etc because those happen in person - let alone considered for any kind of promotion.

christiansakai 6y ago

I think small team and good manager/team lead will mitigate this.

somebrody 6y ago

It is only suicide for in-company promotion tracks. It has no effect on your career if you learn to not depend on in-company tracks for your success.

asah 6y ago
"I work for Silicon Valley Inc, NameOfCompany division"
SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
That's not just a matter of learning. The kinds of things you can achieve are different. If you want to become a director of some big engineering organization one day, you'll need to build up your position within the companies you work and not just your personal brand.
nojito 6y ago
WFH only works in theory when the economy is booming. In a recession WFH employees are going to the be first ones on the chopping block.

alkibiades 6y ago

i think therse a good subset of people who dont really care that much about their careers. atleast from my experience working at fang. they just like the high pay and WLB and dont seem to care about being promoted or advancement.

somebrody 6y ago
> good subset of people who dont really care that much about their careers Caring too much is a bad bargain. The companies don't care too much about you and me
- umeshunni 6y ago
  I think OP is talking about people caring about their own careers (i.e. growth, promotions etc).
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    Again, not everyone wants to progress all the way to the top in their careers. The higher you go, the more your job changes into helping people help people help people do the actual work, which isn't all that appealing if you chosen a particular career because of the lower-level work being done. It's like in Star Trek, with this common advice to given to captains on the show by their friends/colleagues: never let yourself be promoted to admiral, because you'll be taken off the starship and put behind a desk to push paperwork, and that is just boring.
    - perl4ever 6y ago
      "never let yourself be promoted to admiral" This makes me think of Eisenhower, who I only found out recently apparently never saw combat, yet pretty much went to the top in his career and then became President. Whether paperwork is boring or meaningless is a subjective value judgment. What if it's the paperwork for planning D-Day? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_D._Eisenhower https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_D._Eisenhower

ody4242 6y ago

Except the case when you are considerably cheaper than the people working at the desk next to your boss.

121789 6y ago
I think it's actually the opposite and I'd be wary of moving remote full time quickly at the moment. The face time with your boss while the rest of the team is remote would be hugely beneficial to your career.
- mech422 6y ago
  Again, as I stated above...I've had the totally opposite experience. I've been promoted and survived layoffs multiple times while working 100% remote.
  - 121789 6y ago
    I understand and certainly see where that could be the case, especially for steady-state companies. All I'm saying here is that in the context of the current situation, where you have companies transitioning from non-remote to remote, it's likely in your best interest to wait a bit while the company has to deal with how to evaluate/train/communicate with a mostly remote workforce. In the worst case you have to deal with the office for another year or so with no change. In the best case, you are better positioned for a promotion/raise. Either way, you will learn how others are managing remote work throughout the year. I'm on the long-term-remote path, but I want to see how this plays the rest of the year before making the jump.
    - mech422 6y ago
      Nothing wrong with being cautious... While you're waiting, you might start planning _how_ you will work from home. A good home setup can make all the difference, and can involve expenses like good office chairs, desk, computer, upgraded internet service, etc. Might be a good time to look around the house what you need, where you're gonna put it, etc.

enitihas 6y ago

I agree with you. Anyone working in a big enough company should already know the difference between being at HQ where you are near senior leadership, and being anywhere else.

lowiqengineer 6y ago

I'm __guessing__ that Facebook will have fully remote teams and orgs where this is less of a problem and will have ample opportunities to come to HQ. They fucking send their interns to other offices multiple times during an internship!

atwebb 6y ago

Counterpoint, it allowed me to be more productive and invest time into learning and career growth that otherwise wouldn't been spent in meetings or commuting.

mech422 6y ago

Having worked remotely for decades, and survived a few layoffs, I beg to differ. If your job security rests on the boss seeing your face, many currently unemployed people will tell you, its not very secure.

beager 6y ago

Disagree that what you wrote constitutes "career suicide". - Being targeted for layoffs says more about the company you work for and less about your own career. - Passed over for promotions is again saying a lot about the company, and many folks who work in offices still have to change jobs to get career advancement. I, for one, believe that cultivating remote work competencies that hedge against either of those things is a valuable career skill. It means you can't schmooze your way in person through career growth, you have to do it by demonstrating real value to companies that will value you fairly.

proverbialbunny 6y ago

Often times a single person in a group working remote can cause problems. It's only when the entire team is remote at the same time, either entirely or partially on the same days, does remote stop becoming a concern in the ways you mention. Teams tend to do better when they're sharing remote or sharing coming in. Teams tend to do the best (ymmv) when they're full remote but are local, so they can come in as much as they want to meetup when it is beneficial to do so.

rongenre 6y ago

Working fully remote also means your hunt for your next job is really difficult. One of the upsides of working in a tech hub isn't just the job you have, but the next job you can find.

gdubs 6y ago

Even if this were true in the past, this would certainly be changed with the more level playing field of more and more people working remotely.

jejeyyy77 6y ago

Truth. Funny that so many people are disagreeing with this. I’ve worked at many companies with remote employees as well as being remote myself, as well as companies that were fully remote. Unless everyone is remote , and there is no office then it is career suicide. You will forever be the “remote guy”. You won’t be involved in discussions involving direction of the company, product, etc because those happen in person - let alone considered for any kind of promotion.