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But one thing I don’t really understand is (as someone outside the US) ... how do you really type code (like BASIC) with that thing? The ones I’ve seen had real

But one thing I don’t really understand is (as someone outside the US) ... how do you really type code (like BASIC) with that thing? The ones I’ve seen had really weird alphabet layouts, and I couldn’t understand how can students be able to be productive with such a finicky device.

saagarjha 6y ago
Code is somewhat annoying to type, but when you're a bored high schooler with nothing else to do in class you might as well go through the two menus to type out the TI-BASIC commands.
vulcan01 6y ago
They have computer software for Windows & Mac so you can connect your calculator to your computer and write code like that, but it is a pain to set up.
- avhon1 6y ago
  The TI-84 and newer have USB ports, but the TI-83+ and older require a special cable to connect to a desktop computer. (USB-A or RS-232 on one end, a logic board in the middle, and a 3.5mm jack on the calculator end.) I never had one of those, so I entered everything via the keyboard. It must have been an experience very similar to my dad's, who copied BASIC programs out of Compute! magazines into his Atari 800XL in the 80's.
Dylan16807 6y ago
The last time I used an 83/84, all the functions and keywords were strictly token-based, so you went into menus to pick them out. Variable names and strings were directly typed, using one of the modifier keys. The 89 let you either type the names of functions or get them out of menus at your leisure. It's not the best experience in the world, but it's not significantly worse than typing on a touch screen. Remember that people tolerated typing on phone keypads for years, and this beats that by a mile.
avhon1 6y ago
TI-BASIC code is entered with a menu-based system. For example, while editing a program on a TI-84+, pressing the PRGM button yields this menu: [CTL] I/O EXEC 1:If 2:Then 3:Else 4:For( 5:While 6:Repeat 7:End 8:Pause 0:Goto A:IS>( B:DS<( C:Menu( D:prgm E:Return F:Stop G:DelVar H:GraphStyle I:OPenLib( J:ExecLib You can navigate up and down the menu with the arrow keys and pick the keyword you want with the ENTER key, or you can just press the corresponding number/letter (which is much faster). You can also left-arrow and right-arrow to related submenus. For example, that "I/O" next to "CTL" is this menu: CTL [I/O] EXEC 1:Input 2:Prompt 3:Disp 4:DispGraph 5:DispTable 6:Output( 7:getKey 8:ClrHome 9:ClrTable 0:GetCalc( A:Get( B:Send( There are never more than 3 submenus associated with any key, so you either get the menu you want, or you are only a single left or right arrow away. Menus (except the "Catalog" of all commands) have a maximum length of 35 entries, so you can always select a menu item by typing its corresponding number or letter (assuming you already know it). The worst case is 4 keypresses: faceplate button (like PRGM, MATH, or LIST), left- or right-arrow (if you need a non-default submenu), the ALPHA key (to type a letter), and the letter of a command more than 10 entries down in the menu. This is exactly the way that all menus work on the calculator, and all of the actions you can pick at the REPL are also valid program entries. The more familiar you are with using the calculator in general, the easier it gets to program them. I wrote a lot of TI-BASIC in high school in the early 2010's, and had a lot of the menus memorized. Typing the programs in was definitely not the hard part. The only times you use alphabetical input when writing TI-BASIC are: * writing string literals * typing a one-letter variable name * referencing a custom-named list that hasn't yet been created, or has been deleted and already deleted.
- zozbot234 6y ago
  It's interesting to note that this is essentially a domain-specific structural editor; each keypress is a full lexical token that happens to be valid in the TI-BASIC programming language, and a different input mode is triggered for full alpha/numeric input. That's how one can cope with an input method that's as low in bandwidth as a fiddly calculator keyboard.
  - avhon1 6y ago
ummwhat 6y ago
Every button doubles as a letter after you press the alpha key. The letters are sequential with A at the top and z at the bottom. There's a key (I forget which) that brings up a menu with all the commands organized by category. You never have to type out the commands letter by letter.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Sometimes I wonder if it would be easier to type out the commands letter-by-letter. (Alas, the calculators did not have a way to convert these to the tokens it expected…)

saagarjha 6y ago

Code is somewhat annoying to type, but when you're a bored high schooler with nothing else to do in class you might as well go through the two menus to type out the TI-BASIC commands.

vulcan01 6y ago

They have computer software for Windows & Mac so you can connect your calculator to your computer and write code like that, but it is a pain to set up.

avhon1 6y ago
The TI-84 and newer have USB ports, but the TI-83+ and older require a special cable to connect to a desktop computer. (USB-A or RS-232 on one end, a logic board in the middle, and a 3.5mm jack on the calculator end.) I never had one of those, so I entered everything via the keyboard. It must have been an experience very similar to my dad's, who copied BASIC programs out of Compute! magazines into his Atari 800XL in the 80's.

Dylan16807 6y ago

The last time I used an 83/84, all the functions and keywords were strictly token-based, so you went into menus to pick them out. Variable names and strings were directly typed, using one of the modifier keys. The 89 let you either type the names of functions or get them out of menus at your leisure. It's not the best experience in the world, but it's not significantly worse than typing on a touch screen. Remember that people tolerated typing on phone keypads for years, and this beats that by a mile.

avhon1 6y ago

TI-BASIC code is entered with a menu-based system. For example, while editing a program on a TI-84+, pressing the PRGM button yields this menu: [CTL] I/O EXEC 1:If 2:Then 3:Else 4:For( 5:While 6:Repeat 7:End 8:Pause 0:Goto A:IS>( B:DS<( C:Menu( D:prgm E:Return F:Stop G:DelVar H:GraphStyle I:OPenLib( J:ExecLib You can navigate up and down the menu with the arrow keys and pick the keyword you want with the ENTER key, or you can just press the corresponding number/letter (which is much faster). You can also left-arrow and right-arrow to related submenus. For example, that "I/O" next to "CTL" is this menu: CTL [I/O] EXEC 1:Input 2:Prompt 3:Disp 4:DispGraph 5:DispTable 6:Output( 7:getKey 8:ClrHome 9:ClrTable 0:GetCalc( A:Get( B:Send( There are never more than 3 submenus associated with any key, so you either get the menu you want, or you are only a single left or right arrow away. Menus (except the "Catalog" of all commands) have a maximum length of 35 entries, so you can always select a menu item by typing its corresponding number or letter (assuming you already know it). The worst case is 4 keypresses: faceplate button (like PRGM, MATH, or LIST), left- or right-arrow (if you need a non-default submenu), the ALPHA key (to type a letter), and the letter of a command more than 10 entries down in the menu. This is exactly the way that all menus work on the calculator, and all of the actions you can pick at the REPL are also valid program entries. The more familiar you are with using the calculator in general, the easier it gets to program them. I wrote a lot of TI-BASIC in high school in the early 2010's, and had a lot of the menus memorized. Typing the programs in was definitely not the hard part. The only times you use alphabetical input when writing TI-BASIC are: * writing string literals * typing a one-letter variable name * referencing a custom-named list that hasn't yet been created, or has been deleted and already deleted.

zozbot234 6y ago
It's interesting to note that this is essentially a domain-specific structural editor; each keypress is a full lexical token that happens to be valid in the TI-BASIC programming language, and a different input mode is triggered for full alpha/numeric input. That's how one can cope with an input method that's as low in bandwidth as a fiddly calculator keyboard.
- avhon1 6y ago

ummwhat 6y ago

Every button doubles as a letter after you press the alpha key. The letters are sequential with A at the top and z at the bottom. There's a key (I forget which) that brings up a menu with all the commands organized by category. You never have to type out the commands letter by letter.

saagarjha 6y ago
Sometimes I wonder if it would be easier to type out the commands letter-by-letter. (Alas, the calculators did not have a way to convert these to the tokens it expected…)