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Would it be going too far to suggest that the founding fathers never intended for a full democracy in the first place? It makes for an interesting argument when

by tjpnz 6y ago

Would it be going too far to suggest that the founding fathers never intended for a full democracy in the first place? It makes for an interesting argument when viewed in the context of the electoral college.

kazagistar 6y ago
No, it's just historical fact that they feared mob rule and worked to try to keep the uneducated masses out.
- shadowgovt 6y ago
  Perhaps more accurately, they were of two minds about mob rule. Jefferson believed in the idealized "happy yeoman farmer;" that common people, allowed to seek their own fate, would make a better government. Virtue (as a quasi-religious concept) dwelt in the heart of the aggregate public. Adams believed in significant risks letting an uneducated mass of people determine their own fate. He didn't have to dig too far into the history books to find examples of why a government given over to the people tended to devolve into rule by a strongman. Government of a virtuous people demanded an elite who would be dedicated to the cause and educated to do it right. The government built from people in these two camps of thought was a compromise government intended to tame the catastrophic risk-factors of the excesses of both scenarios.
ben_w 6y ago
Anecdotally, “it is a republic, not a democracy, by design” is something I hear from people who bring up in conversation that they voted Republican. (Note: I’m not American, so I imagine the sort of person who tells me that isn’t representative of Republican voters).
nabnob 6y ago
Yeah, they never intended a full democracy. Initially only white men who owned property could vote (6% of the population when the United States was founded https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_voting_rights_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_voting_rights_in_t...), so I think that's a fair statement. All of the rights gained by different oppressed groups (right to vote, labor laws, tenant laws) came through struggle and direct action, not because those in power suddenly decided to grant those rights out of the kindness of their hearts.

by tjpnz 6y ago

kazagistar 6y ago

No, it's just historical fact that they feared mob rule and worked to try to keep the uneducated masses out.

shadowgovt 6y ago
Perhaps more accurately, they were of two minds about mob rule. Jefferson believed in the idealized "happy yeoman farmer;" that common people, allowed to seek their own fate, would make a better government. Virtue (as a quasi-religious concept) dwelt in the heart of the aggregate public. Adams believed in significant risks letting an uneducated mass of people determine their own fate. He didn't have to dig too far into the history books to find examples of why a government given over to the people tended to devolve into rule by a strongman. Government of a virtuous people demanded an elite who would be dedicated to the cause and educated to do it right. The government built from people in these two camps of thought was a compromise government intended to tame the catastrophic risk-factors of the excesses of both scenarios.

ben_w 6y ago

Anecdotally, “it is a republic, not a democracy, by design” is something I hear from people who bring up in conversation that they voted Republican. (Note: I’m not American, so I imagine the sort of person who tells me that isn’t representative of Republican voters).

nabnob 6y ago

Yeah, they never intended a full democracy. Initially only white men who owned property could vote (6% of the population when the United States was founded https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_voting_rights_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_voting_rights_in_t...), so I think that's a fair statement. All of the rights gained by different oppressed groups (right to vote, labor laws, tenant laws) came through struggle and direct action, not because those in power suddenly decided to grant those rights out of the kindness of their hearts.