5 ms·

G2A is, and has always been, a black market for software. They list Windows 10 for $27 [0], McAfee for $4 [1], among many other things [2]. They sponsor profess

by css 6y ago

G2A is, and has always been, a black market for software. They list Windows 10 for $27 [0], McAfee for $4 [1], among many other things [2]. They sponsor professional esports teams to add legitimacy to their brand [3]. [0]: https://www.g2a.com/microsoft-windows-10-pro-microsoft-key-global-i10000083916004 https://www.g2a.com/microsoft-windows-10-pro-microsoft-key-g... [1]: https://www.g2a.com/mcafee-antivirus-pc-1-device-1-year-mcafee-key-global-i10000178790001 https://www.g2a.com/mcafee-antivirus-pc-1-device-1-year-mcaf... [2]: https://www.g2a.com/category/software-c5 https://www.g2a.com/category/software-c5 [3]: https://navi.gg/en/read/text/232-navi-prolongs-the-partnership-with-cs-go-players https://navi.gg/en/read/text/232-navi-prolongs-the-partnersh... (Note the logos on the uniforms)

qqj 6y ago
dunno about the others but 27$ Win10 is OEM license that is locked to a single machine. Seems legit.
- css 6y ago
  The link I attached is to a normal license, not an OEM one, which goes for even cheaper: https://www.g2a.com/microsoft-windows-10-oem-home-microsoft-pc-key-global-i10000179338002 https://www.g2a.com/microsoft-windows-10-oem-home-microsoft-...
  - Tuna-Fish 6y ago
    That's actually way too high a price for a windows 10 OEM licence. You can get entirely legitimate ones on eBay for <7€. The reason they are so cheap is that EU laws protect the consumer right to resell things they purchase, and EU feels very strongly that this extends to software licenses. Most pre-built computers come with a bundled OEM Windows, which any EU resident can legally sell. Since a lot of computers bought by businesses, schools, hospitals, etc also contain Win 10 Home licenses, which are promptly replaced by whatever OS the site actually uses, and then immediately sold to someone reselling them, there is a healthy marketplace that has pushed license prices very low.
    - anoraca 6y ago
      OEM licenses are tied to the hardware that they were originally sold with and cannot be transferred. These licenses would not pass an audit.
      - Tuna-Fish 6y ago
        Not in EU they are not, because doing that is not legal.
        anoraca 6y ago
        Do you have a reference for that? Does Microsoft continue to sell OEM licenses in the EU?
        gambiting 6y ago
        They do, but you are legally allowed to sell them on. Yes, the licence forbids that, but it's not enforceable and is meaningless. Courts have decided many times that software licences are like any other asset and yes, you can sell them on. There's a full summary of the legal situation(in Polish, but I'm sure google translate will manage), with legal documents supporting it(it's actually been going on in early forms since 2000, but it's the ruling from 2012 that has cemented your right as a consumer to sell on software, regardless of whether the manufacturer allows it or not) https://www.forscope.pl/blog/gwarancja-legalnego-oprogramowania/ https://www.forscope.pl/blog/gwarancja-legalnego-oprogramowa...
        berdario 6y ago
        IANAL, but if the license is illegal, it wouldn't mean that it's illegal to sell a product under such a license. It would just mean that enforcing all terms of that license would be impossible.
        numpad0 6y ago
        Nothing prevents you from writing an illegal contract, even enforce it a bit. Laws needs to be enforced to have an effect.
Matsta 6y ago
When I went to Poland earlier in the year, I even saw they sponsor a massive Arena: https://g2aarena.pl/ https://g2aarena.pl/
anoraca 6y ago
More references on their business tactics, going back years: https://www.engadget.com/2019-07-17-g2a-key-gift-game-developers-explained.html https://www.engadget.com/2019-07-17-g2a-key-gift-game-develo... https://www.tinybuild.com/single-post/2017/04/28/G2A-sold-450k-worth-of-our-game-keys https://www.tinybuild.com/single-post/2017/04/28/G2A-sold-45... https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/4yn8r2/g2a_is_actively_promoting_credit_card_fraud_by/ https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/4yn8r2/g2a_is_activ... https://www.reddit.com/r/forsen/comments/48ub1d/athene_gaming_for_good_and_possible_tax_fraud/ https://www.reddit.com/r/forsen/comments/48ub1d/athene_gamin...
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
lagadu 6y ago
Why do you say it's a black market? Reselling of license keys is legal within the EU. Granted the hundreds of keys mentioned in the article were originally stolen, therefore illegal to sell but it seems they're taking steps to combat those, including honoring the 10x agreement with the developers. Having quickly googled it, I've seen much criticism about their sale of grey market keys (keys sold cheaper to specific markets being sold to other markets) but those are legal. Many of the other criticisms are because some users are selling stolen keys, which puts g2a at the same level as Amazon or Ebay.
- duxup 6y ago
  The stolen key system (legit keys bought with stolen CCs) has been how G2A keeps their prices low. I don't think this has been a mystery to G2A and they've been at it for years / not been responsive to developers who have contacted them about it ...
  - driverdan 6y ago
    How is that different than someone selling products on eBay or Amazon that were purchased with stolen cards?
    - duxup 6y ago
      Does it have to be different?
      - maerF0x0 6y ago
        It doesnt, but we dont see front page posts on HN saying "Stolen goods sold on ebay". IMO this should be a congratulatory post "G2A owns up to their mistakes and follows through on their word" ...
        duxup 6y ago
        Let's see if G2A does... they've profited from not doing so for a long time. They knew, they didn't care and they sold other people's work for their own profit. They earned plenty of skepticism and this wasn't a one off mistake, it was exactly how they chose to do business for a long time...
troughway 6y ago
Heard of eBay? VS2k19 for $5, Windows Server 2k19 for $5. Black market, hah.
- gambiting 6y ago
  Yeah I mean I've been buying all of my Windows 10 keys of ebay for years, they always work fine. Also keep in mind that in EU re-selling software is completely legal and that's where most of these keys come from(dismantled PCs, post-lease laptops etc). I bought a 100-user licence for Microsoft SQL Server 2016 for like $1000 because the company that used to own it went into liquidation and the assets were being sold off.
  - icelancer 6y ago
    Yup. I grab all my Office keys from eBay too. Guess I'll look at G2A as well.
heavenlyblue 6y ago
Last time I bought a very cheap Windows 9? (circa $35) it was simply an OEM edition that required you to call MS and tell them you are registering new hardware. It obviously implied you could not reuse the key for new hardware. But that was a genuine key. PS: I just checked the listing you gave and yes - that is an OEM version where they clearly describe that you would need to personally register your copy over phone and that you can only use it for one PC. It seems like you are at least partially wrong about them being generally a scam.

by css 6y ago

qqj 6y ago

dunno about the others but 27$ Win10 is OEM license that is locked to a single machine. Seems legit.

css 6y ago
The link I attached is to a normal license, not an OEM one, which goes for even cheaper: https://www.g2a.com/microsoft-windows-10-oem-home-microsoft-pc-key-global-i10000179338002 https://www.g2a.com/microsoft-windows-10-oem-home-microsoft-...
- Tuna-Fish 6y ago
  That's actually way too high a price for a windows 10 OEM licence. You can get entirely legitimate ones on eBay for <7€. The reason they are so cheap is that EU laws protect the consumer right to resell things they purchase, and EU feels very strongly that this extends to software licenses. Most pre-built computers come with a bundled OEM Windows, which any EU resident can legally sell. Since a lot of computers bought by businesses, schools, hospitals, etc also contain Win 10 Home licenses, which are promptly replaced by whatever OS the site actually uses, and then immediately sold to someone reselling them, there is a healthy marketplace that has pushed license prices very low.
  - anoraca 6y ago
    OEM licenses are tied to the hardware that they were originally sold with and cannot be transferred. These licenses would not pass an audit.
    - Tuna-Fish 6y ago
      Not in EU they are not, because doing that is not legal.
      - anoraca 6y ago
        Do you have a reference for that? Does Microsoft continue to sell OEM licenses in the EU?
        gambiting 6y ago
        They do, but you are legally allowed to sell them on. Yes, the licence forbids that, but it's not enforceable and is meaningless. Courts have decided many times that software licences are like any other asset and yes, you can sell them on. There's a full summary of the legal situation(in Polish, but I'm sure google translate will manage), with legal documents supporting it(it's actually been going on in early forms since 2000, but it's the ruling from 2012 that has cemented your right as a consumer to sell on software, regardless of whether the manufacturer allows it or not) https://www.forscope.pl/blog/gwarancja-legalnego-oprogramowania/ https://www.forscope.pl/blog/gwarancja-legalnego-oprogramowa...
        berdario 6y ago
        IANAL, but if the license is illegal, it wouldn't mean that it's illegal to sell a product under such a license. It would just mean that enforcing all terms of that license would be impossible.
        numpad0 6y ago
        Nothing prevents you from writing an illegal contract, even enforce it a bit. Laws needs to be enforced to have an effect.

Matsta 6y ago

When I went to Poland earlier in the year, I even saw they sponsor a massive Arena: https://g2aarena.pl/ https://g2aarena.pl/

anoraca 6y ago

More references on their business tactics, going back years: https://www.engadget.com/2019-07-17-g2a-key-gift-game-developers-explained.html https://www.engadget.com/2019-07-17-g2a-key-gift-game-develo... https://www.tinybuild.com/single-post/2017/04/28/G2A-sold-450k-worth-of-our-game-keys https://www.tinybuild.com/single-post/2017/04/28/G2A-sold-45... https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/4yn8r2/g2a_is_actively_promoting_credit_card_fraud_by/ https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/4yn8r2/g2a_is_activ... https://www.reddit.com/r/forsen/comments/48ub1d/athene_gaming_for_good_and_possible_tax_fraud/ https://www.reddit.com/r/forsen/comments/48ub1d/athene_gamin...

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

lagadu 6y ago

Why do you say it's a black market? Reselling of license keys is legal within the EU. Granted the hundreds of keys mentioned in the article were originally stolen, therefore illegal to sell but it seems they're taking steps to combat those, including honoring the 10x agreement with the developers. Having quickly googled it, I've seen much criticism about their sale of grey market keys (keys sold cheaper to specific markets being sold to other markets) but those are legal. Many of the other criticisms are because some users are selling stolen keys, which puts g2a at the same level as Amazon or Ebay.

duxup 6y ago
The stolen key system (legit keys bought with stolen CCs) has been how G2A keeps their prices low. I don't think this has been a mystery to G2A and they've been at it for years / not been responsive to developers who have contacted them about it ...
- driverdan 6y ago
  How is that different than someone selling products on eBay or Amazon that were purchased with stolen cards?
  - duxup 6y ago
    Does it have to be different?
    - maerF0x0 6y ago
      It doesnt, but we dont see front page posts on HN saying "Stolen goods sold on ebay". IMO this should be a congratulatory post "G2A owns up to their mistakes and follows through on their word" ...
      - duxup 6y ago
        Let's see if G2A does... they've profited from not doing so for a long time. They knew, they didn't care and they sold other people's work for their own profit. They earned plenty of skepticism and this wasn't a one off mistake, it was exactly how they chose to do business for a long time...

troughway 6y ago

Heard of eBay? VS2k19 for $5, Windows Server 2k19 for $5. Black market, hah.

gambiting 6y ago
Yeah I mean I've been buying all of my Windows 10 keys of ebay for years, they always work fine. Also keep in mind that in EU re-selling software is completely legal and that's where most of these keys come from(dismantled PCs, post-lease laptops etc). I bought a 100-user licence for Microsoft SQL Server 2016 for like $1000 because the company that used to own it went into liquidation and the assets were being sold off.
- icelancer 6y ago
  Yup. I grab all my Office keys from eBay too. Guess I'll look at G2A as well.

heavenlyblue 6y ago

Last time I bought a very cheap Windows 9? (circa $35) it was simply an OEM edition that required you to call MS and tell them you are registering new hardware. It obviously implied you could not reuse the key for new hardware. But that was a genuine key. PS: I just checked the listing you gave and yes - that is an OEM version where they clearly describe that you would need to personally register your copy over phone and that you can only use it for one PC. It seems like you are at least partially wrong about them being generally a scam.