10 ms·

How Nextdoor courts police and public officials

128 points by SamWhited 6y ago

everybodyknows 6y ago
>they’d stay at the Hilton Union Square, eat and drink at Cultivar, share a tour of Chinatown, and receive matching Uniqlo jackets. All costs — a projected $16,900 for the group, > “We look to you as influencers in your industry,” So, turn local cops into part-time salespeople for Nextdoor, and its advertising clients. What could go wrong?
- IG_Semmelweiss 6y ago
  Indeed Of course municipality bureaucrats are thrilled by this. They have never been shown the love usually reserved for federal lobbying efforts. I'm glad i use throwaway emails to subcribe to apps such as Nextdoor, and im never again touching it.
- microcolonel 6y ago
  Seems like it's time to fire some people, this is not going to be the last time somebody plies police officers, but every time should be the last for someone.
- Spooky23 6y ago
  That’s gross. When I was a public employee traveling and interacting with external entities, our ethics rules prohibited us from accepting token gifts/swag valued >$5 or alcohol. Bottle of water at a meeting was ok, pen was ok, a beer was not, a Starbucks was questionable. Accepting a jacket would be serious — potentially a referral to the IG and potential civil fine or criminal prosecution. The public perception of a police official walking around with branded swag of significant value is pretty obvious.
  - kop316 6y ago
    That's what I was thinking too. Accepting gifts like that is one of the few things that could get a federal employee fired (among other things) very quickly. It is self and peer policed very heavily.
    - C1sc0cat 6y ago
      Most cops are not federal employees its very devolved in the USA with no common standards for training background checks and so on.
      - kop316 6y ago
        Usually state laws exist for the same thing. This was Arizona? https://www.stateandfed.com/docs/Gifts/az_GiftLaw.pdf https://www.stateandfed.com/docs/Gifts/az_GiftLaw.pdf https://www.azleg.gov/viewdocument/?docName=https://www.azleg.gov/ars/38/00504.htm https://www.azleg.gov/viewdocument/?docName=https://www.azle... I think these would apply.
    - HarryHirsch 6y ago
      Peer policing of corruption? In the police force? The framework of threats and loyalties that a federal employee operates in is completely different from that of a cop.
blakesterz 6y ago
Nextdoor seems to be one of those sites that divide people, especially here. I'm more or less on the fence with this one. It seems decent enough in my neighborhood. Just this week it was the only place I could look to find out what exploded in the middle of the night (It was a transformer). The posts and comments tend to be pretty decent, usually. We seem to be avoiding the things that seem to be a problem in other areas, at least so far. Like the article says "Nextdoor has also been a hotbed of racial profiling and tattling." and I've not seen much of that here. If anything this article says "Nextdoor is doing the same thing as every other company", which doesn't make me less likely to use the site from time to time. I do agree with it though... “You want a police officer who has the best interests of their specific community at heart. You don’t want a police officer who’s brand loyal.”
- specialp 6y ago
  I found it is most useful to just use it as a "pull" resource and not allow it to push you anything. I don't care about the guy complaining about a neighbor using his leaf blower at 8am, or the person complaining the FedEx driver delivered their package with no mask on (seriously). So I shut off all Nextdoor notifications and only go on there when I am curious about something like you said, A late night explosion, helicopter, or if a business closed. It was good at first, but like every community it seems the later adopters tend to be the worst. Now there are a lot of the types that call the police/town on everything or hold petty grudges against others due to what they view as transgressions. Pretty much always older people. You would think that having their real name out there would increase civility and make people more careful, but no. I just think younger people (people much younger than me like Gen Z'ers) more understand the permanence of interactions online, and just are more tolerant of other people. Whenever I feel myself getting cranky, I remember what it was like to always have "that person" on your block.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    >I found it is most useful to just use it as a "pull" resource and not allow it to push you anything. In all fairness, that could be said of approximately 99% of the apps and websites out there.
mark_l_watson 6y ago
Signed up for Nextdoor, but the noise level was not good. I muted everyone but our local Chief of Police. Ideally, local officials would have their own email list but then there is a discoverability problem. It is not that I hate Nextdoor, but I put effort into eliminating interruptions and noise in my life so I can concentrate on the people and things I love. The attention (and surveillance) economy makes a lot of money via non-obvious data use.
lonelappde 6y ago
It's a sign of the times that this article doesn't mention any FBI corruption investigation, which is is clearly necessary here.
zadkey 6y ago
I kept seeing a lot posts on Nextdoor from people who don't realize they are racist. An example post on was where someone was complaining about a strange black man walking through their neighborhood. Of course when you read the post carefully you would then come to realize, that this man was walking down the sidewalk, during the day, not bothering or talking to anyone, just minding his own business. The reality is there was nothing particularly strange about this black man. Nothing in her description explains what he did that made him strange. She likely just finds it strange that a black man is walking through their neighborhood. The other thing is these kinds of posts would always be followed up with someone along the lines of "keep an eye out for him" or "don't let him near your kids" or "call the police if you see him again" or that kind of fear-mongering nonsense. I was honestly downright surprised how racist some of these people are.
- jeffbee 6y ago
  One of the problems of Nextdoor's fear-based social network is that "crime and safety" topics are more widely distributed than general topics, so one racist anywhere in your city can poison the whole thing. And it's not just racism. For some reason violent drivers feel like it is a safe space to openly advocate for running down bicyclists and stuff like that.
- deleted 6y ago
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- snarf21 6y ago
  Agreed. Nextdoor's whole model is built around fear-mongering. It is despicable. This is where the "see something, say something" can go too far. A guy driving a van through your neighborhood could be a plumber and not a pedophile trying to kidnap your kids. There seems to be no sense of "suspicious activity" before these people start spewing nonsense. To be fair, this isn't unique to Nextdoor. My relative is a state police and they get calls for things you can't even imagine, like "my kid won't listen to me, can you scare them straight?" or "the neighbor mowed one strip over the line, make them stop!" It just sucks when companies set out to exploit this human characteristic for profit but hide behind the guise of "open platform". "We're just trying to help build stronger neighborhoods", yeah sure you are.
12xo 6y ago
This company is far more dangerous than FB. They masquerade as a public service but are nothing more than a data mining trick to cull PII from as many as possible. I have read it described as Twitter for old people, but to me, its where the dumbest and the most gullible seem to hang. Its really a site for 'Karen's' to whine and complain about the most asinine things... But its their underlying business model that is atrocious. IMHO its the worst social media outlet around.
- mc32 6y ago
  No doubt it’s a data vacuuming powerhouse. Likely on the level of Facebook... but they are not only about complainers. It’s like a town square. You get a heads up to what’s going on. Changes, news, public issues, etc. it’s useful but with some drawbacks.
  - 12xo 6y ago
    My problem isnt the community, its the way they trick people into signing up and how they then collect and sell the data. Many people actually think ND is a public service. And this article is a big reason as to why that is... IMHO we should not have these types of entities in bed with local municipalities as it erodes both the public's trust and also undermines the sanctity of government.
    - beeskneecaps 6y ago
      It’s worth reading the privacy policy: https://legal.nextdoor.com/us-privacy-policy-2020/ https://legal.nextdoor.com/us-privacy-policy-2020/ Not seeing any PII disclosure.
      - 12xo 6y ago
        They collect and require your name and your actual home address (and they verify these) all as part of their required registration. What could be more PII than that? Seriously. What?
TallGuyShort 6y ago
>> Nextdoor and the public agencies it works with say that close ties between the social media platform and the government can help them both do their jobs better. The thing is, that's true. It's the way they're going about it and the fact that it's a messy public / private mix that raises ethical concerns. At some point we're going to need to rethink an official channel for government communications. Think about it: how dependent on social media have many of us been to find out the latest public health mandates? And how well do we feel like social media deals with fake news and fraud and privacy? The combination of those two is a big problem. There needs to be a better official communications platform. The US Postal Service was seen as very fundamental to the forming of its government. Now, ignoring the financial woes and plundering by Congress, and ignoring the very lousy and incompetent service you can get from it in some places, it just has fundamental limitations in cost, speed, level of non-repudiation, etc. It's largely become a subsidized junk mail / litter distribution network. It's how I'm supposed to get official correspondence from the IRS, but it's harder than it should be to know it REALLY came from the IRS, and to prove that I REALLY replied on time, and to actually work towards a resolution. We can't use it for all our elections because of (real or not) fraud concerns so we use more inconvenient forms of voting. If you need to take someone to court you can't trust it, so you have to pay for expensive process service. It doesn't get used to notify me of changes in laws that affect me, like I might get fined if I go to the park with my kids tomorrow. It can't be used to tell me that I can't park my car where I usually do in 72 hours because of time-sensitive maintenance, we instead pay someone to put a note on my door and hope it doesn't blow away. It's not great. The de facto solution? Rely on NextDoor and Facebook. And we get ethical dilemmas like this article. I really think at some point we need to declare some kind of Internet access a fundamental need as much as service by USPS (which is required to service every address) has been in the past, and not rely on private infrastructure for basic government services like this. As someone who tends to be libertarian and lives somewhat off-grid a lot of the time, I see the difficulties and fully expect that our government would screw up the execution of this. But at some point I think it's necessary and inevitable to at least try. The most basic functions of government could be done so much better.
crsv 6y ago
Nextdoor is quickly becoming a detestable social network experience. I've noticed that over the last year or so, it's almost exclusively negativity or fear based in its content. Most posts are either people complaining or tattling on something that is a minor nuisance at best or fear mongering for larger issues. I've seen very, very limited positive benefit from the platform. It strikes me as something that had great potential, but is just turning in to a cesspool as it grows.
- beeskneecaps 6y ago
  What are some of the things that you are hoping to see going on in your neighborhood?
  - crsv 6y ago
    Information seeking, curiosity, chances to share in experience, people seeking help, people offering help, fellowship.
    - jpindar 6y ago
      I see those on my Nextdoor everyday.
danso 6y ago
As reported, it seems that Nextdoor has a non-disclosure agreement that – without determined legal pushback – all but guarantees a chilling effect on how gov't agencies respond to public records requests, including when Nextdoor data is used to tip police investigations: > In the terms of Nextdoor’s NDA, advisory council members are not allowed to release public statements about the partnership without the consent of Nextdoor, nor are they able to follow a court order to disclose any information deemed confidential by Nextdoor without alerting the company first. The document is the same one it gives to all business partners, the company said, and is meant to protect confidential information like product ideas. > ...Though there are few rules prohibiting them from signing such a document, the practice could help shroud government decisions from the public, says Guariglia from the Electronic Frontier Foundation. And the NDA’s “heads-up” clause could give agencies the leeway to alert the company before complying with freedom of information act requests. > After CityLab requested public records from Husted’s department, he alerted Nextdoor spokesperson Edie Campbell-Urban, though he said that he wasn’t doing so because of any terms of the NDA. When CityLab requested similar records from Kagarise, the county’s Office of Risk Management services informed CityLab that it was delaying its answer, in part because they were busy dealing with Covid-19. They said they would also be informing Nextdoor Inc. of the public records request, pursuant to a state law protecting third parties from information “not in the public interest” that would “substantially and irreparably damage” the third party or the government.
dx87 6y ago
I think the worst thing I've seen popping up on Nextdoor is quarantine zealots reporting people to the police for leaving the house for "non-essential" reasons. The most recent example I saw was a hairdresser using Nextdoor to schedule 1 on 1 house calls since they can't pay their bills due to the quarantine, and a busybody reported them because "millions of people will die if we don't stay inside". I don't know what ended up happening to the hairdresser though.
gerardnll 6y ago
Awful idea of a company we don't need as a society. If you want to connect with your neighbours go talk to them, go and plan something for the street/neighbourhood, participate in local festivities, buy in local stores. Human contact is what we need, no virtual substitutes. If there's an issue, solve it in person, speaking... Not to talk about tracking and privacy concerns.
- beeskneecaps 6y ago
  This makes sense for your immediate neighbors. It gets trickier to go door to door meeting your neighbors around the entire block for example. Especially during SIP! That’s where you probably want to meet your neighbors online then connect with them later offline.
  - c22 6y ago
    You're living there so you could do one a week until you've met them all. Also, block parties are great.
mgkimsal 6y ago
My nextdoor story: A couple of years ago we got a post in our nextdoor group: "watch out - car burglary!". Paraphrasing here - "be aware - someone is breaking in to cars parked outside and taking stuff. they got our gun last night!" Another neighbor chimed in a day later with "yeah, got mine too!". There's only maybe 60 houses in the whole area, and... people are leaving guns in cars - one was unlocked. This was, to my view, nowhere near "responsible gun ownership" - regardless of your 2A views, it just seems like that behavior should be illegal. But... it's not (at least in our state). Over the last couple years, I've used it as a talking point when talking 'gun rights' stuff to people, and - surprisingly to me - I only get around 50% of "pro gun" people who agree with me that it's irresponsible behavior.
- billme 6y ago
  People tend to believe that they have no responsibility to not bait criminals, acknowledge fault if their actions enabled crimes, etc. Reason? Doing so would reduce their rights, increase their responsibilities, etc.
- ReactiveJelly 6y ago
  Elsewhere online, someone planned to "lose" their guns while fishing if the government ever wanted to take them. Who's gonna bother diving into a lake to prove one person is lying? In your case, it's even worse if the gun really was stolen - Now a "bad guy" has it. Most people can't even keep their Twitter passwords safe, much less a weapon. I would like for good and responsible people to own guns, if only I had ever met any good and responsible people.
- waffle_ss 6y ago
  How do you know the gun wasn't in one of those little portable safes? Or in a locked glove box? If I'm running errands around town, I can't bring my gun into certain businesses, or federal facilities like the post office. So it stays locked in my car, in a little lock box that is tethered to the metal seat base with steel cable (but the cable could be cut with big enough bolt cutters or an angle grinder). I see no problems keeping guns in cars as long as they're secured, but I agree if your neighbors hadn't either locked theirs up somehow then that's irresponsible.
SmallPeePeeMan 6y ago
I don’t understand the problem with law enforcement. Can someone explain the risks/problems? Because I’ve only ever used NextDoor to get referrals for plumbers, handymen, electricians, gardeners, etc.
SmallPeePeeMan 6y ago
What do cops get out of NextDoor? Please help me to understand
bob1029 6y ago
The worst part about this type of social network is the people it brings out of the woodwork. Those crazy assholes who live in your neighborhood who were otherwise confined to passive aggressive letters and shouting at you as you take down your trash now have the ability to band together with other asshole neighbors and get the police involved whenever they collectively feel an emotional response about something. How is this a good thing for those of us who want to be left the fuck alone? How do we put an end to this ridiculous nonsense?
- Catsandkites 6y ago
  As another person who mostly wants to be left the fuck alone as well: One of the internet's greatest gifts is the ability to communicate with so many people you would otherwise have never spoken to. One of its greatest curses is that all of the stupid people, who used to only ever be able to talk to the other X stupid people in their small area, can now talk to a world wide network of stupid people. Pushing each other to ever increasing levels of stupidity that inevitably spills out onto everyone else's lives. And unfortunately it seems there is no putting the genie back into the bottle.
A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
I like Nextdoor. Its focus on 'hyper local' allows me to get recommendations for local businesses. I do have a problem with NDAs signed by my local elected officials. I would like to know what they are up to, thank you very much.
tinyhouse 6y ago
Initially I thought Nextdoor is a great idea. A place where you can get to know your neighbors, ask for recommendations for local labor, discover new restaurants that opened in town, etc. Like everyone already mentioned, the noise ratio made it hard to use and I quickly didn't bother to log in and canceled all notifications. Also, my town and all nearby towns have FB groups. It's not at a neighborhood level like in Nextdoor but most towns are not that big that it matters much. I'm not big on those groups either, but I'm assuming with good group moderators you can get the same or even greater value. In that sense Nextdoor is just a feature...
- MivLives 6y ago
  I used to live on a street that had our own Facebook group. It was all things like "They're inspecting trash cans on the sidewalk again, I threw all your trash cans up on your porches to avoid the fine" and "Tim's backyard bike shop is open again, stop by with a six pack for a tune up" I miss that street.
someonehere 6y ago
Nextdoor definitely has its share of racist sounding posts. A woman in my neighborhood said she came home late one night and parked a couple of blocks from her home. She was walking home and a younger black male was walking behind her. As she walked closer to her home she said she felt he was getting closer to her. She turned around and said “night tonight buddy!” really loud. She was convinced the guy was out to rape her. The only thing I like Nextdoor for is I can find neighbors in a day who I can sell or give away things I no longer need. It’s like Craigslist circa early 2000s in terms of genuine people who want to take it off your hands.
blululu 6y ago
I was pressured into signing up for NextDoor in order to participate in a local civic function. The whole experience felt very sketchy (ironic because a lot of the my neighborhood is people complaining about 'shady' characters). They had a slew of dark patterns in their sign up to try to get me to give out email addresses of friends so that they could be spammed with signup emails. The network is fine, but having public civic functions existing behind a closed wall owned by a private company is a really bad idea. Using Craigslist would be way less sketchy.
- beeskneecaps 6y ago
  Craigslist would not be where I would recommend operating civic functions.
shimylining 6y ago
I think it all depends on which location you are in. My location has been great especially during this time and people are offering help and also giving away food for the less abled.Also the other day there was something that sounded like gunshots, police were called and I found out it was nothing bad on nextdoor first than my local news site or twitter.
raiyu 6y ago
It's a tired saying, but no less, true if you aren't paying for it you are the product. There are no social platforms that are VC backed that aren't going to at some point resort to the lowest common denominator of making a buck at someone's expense. And when you aren't paying for the product, then you are no longer able to control that exchange. Google started off with Don't be Evil - now they force adverts from your competitors on your registered trademark and force you to advertise your own company name or lose customers - meanwhile for Google's products, no one can advertise in the same manner. Facebook - well - that one is too long to even dive into. Twitter - has done ok, sort of - but the problem with it's no policing policy is pretty rampant harassment that is also dealt with in an inconsistent manner. That's why paying for something you create an exchange where the company providing that service has an incentive to keep you happy, not some advertising company. There is also competition that will naturally spring up, competing for that dollar.
drdeadringer 6y ago
> in calmer times, Nextdoor has also been a hotbed of racial profiling and tattling. I've seen this on NextDoor myself. The most innocent Nosy Nancy post I saw was along the lines of: "Observed teenagers walking eastbound with backpacks. Suspicious. Took note, will call police." We live near a school. It was closing time. They were walking home. Add in the homeless in general, the Goodwill donation truck that seconds as a recycling center ["oh no, a homeless magnet!"], and so on and it's a real life NIMBY parody of 'Toxic Avenger'. My cynical side jokes as follows: * Twitter: Hate your heroes * Facebook: Hate your friends//family * NextDoor: Hate your neighbors I'm glad I don't NextDoor anymore, and I'm on the Twitter//Facebook//Reddit triumvirate if that says anything. NextDoor may not be a stone fence needing annual repair, but my noping out of it has tended toward better neighborly relationships.
1024core 6y ago
I wrote a post on Nextdoor, criticizing some of the decisions made by local officials. It got a few responses, and then a day or two later, silently disappeared. I didn't get any notification that it was gone; it had just been quietly deleted with no notification to me. If this is how Nextdoor chooses to behave, then it's useless to me. I've stopped using the app.
pnw_hazor 6y ago
My nextdoor community is pretty quiet, mostly people seeking handymen, landscapers, etc., lost and found pets, overall pretty quiet and boring. Every now and then there is flare up around some issue, such as, fireworks, junk cars, prowlers, and so on. But they are pretty minor compared to FB or Twitter. Few people engage in that behavior in my neighborhood nextdoor I guess. The city and police share out the same stuff they do on their facebook pages and official website.

128 points by SamWhited 6y ago

>they’d stay at the Hilton Union Square, eat and drink at Cultivar, share a tour of Chinatown, and receive matching Uniqlo jackets. All costs — a projected $16,900 for the group, > “We look to you as influencers in your industry,” So, turn local cops into part-time salespeople for Nextdoor, and its advertising clients. What could go wrong?

IG_Semmelweiss 6y ago
Indeed Of course municipality bureaucrats are thrilled by this. They have never been shown the love usually reserved for federal lobbying efforts. I'm glad i use throwaway emails to subcribe to apps such as Nextdoor, and im never again touching it.
microcolonel 6y ago
Seems like it's time to fire some people, this is not going to be the last time somebody plies police officers, but every time should be the last for someone.
Spooky23 6y ago
That’s gross. When I was a public employee traveling and interacting with external entities, our ethics rules prohibited us from accepting token gifts/swag valued >$5 or alcohol. Bottle of water at a meeting was ok, pen was ok, a beer was not, a Starbucks was questionable. Accepting a jacket would be serious — potentially a referral to the IG and potential civil fine or criminal prosecution. The public perception of a police official walking around with branded swag of significant value is pretty obvious.
- kop316 6y ago
  That's what I was thinking too. Accepting gifts like that is one of the few things that could get a federal employee fired (among other things) very quickly. It is self and peer policed very heavily.
  - C1sc0cat 6y ago
    Most cops are not federal employees its very devolved in the USA with no common standards for training background checks and so on.
    - kop316 6y ago
      Usually state laws exist for the same thing. This was Arizona? https://www.stateandfed.com/docs/Gifts/az_GiftLaw.pdf https://www.stateandfed.com/docs/Gifts/az_GiftLaw.pdf https://www.azleg.gov/viewdocument/?docName=https://www.azleg.gov/ars/38/00504.htm https://www.azleg.gov/viewdocument/?docName=https://www.azle... I think these would apply.
  - HarryHirsch 6y ago
    Peer policing of corruption? In the police force? The framework of threats and loyalties that a federal employee operates in is completely different from that of a cop.

blakesterz 6y ago

Nextdoor seems to be one of those sites that divide people, especially here. I'm more or less on the fence with this one. It seems decent enough in my neighborhood. Just this week it was the only place I could look to find out what exploded in the middle of the night (It was a transformer). The posts and comments tend to be pretty decent, usually. We seem to be avoiding the things that seem to be a problem in other areas, at least so far. Like the article says "Nextdoor has also been a hotbed of racial profiling and tattling." and I've not seen much of that here. If anything this article says "Nextdoor is doing the same thing as every other company", which doesn't make me less likely to use the site from time to time. I do agree with it though... “You want a police officer who has the best interests of their specific community at heart. You don’t want a police officer who’s brand loyal.”

specialp 6y ago
I found it is most useful to just use it as a "pull" resource and not allow it to push you anything. I don't care about the guy complaining about a neighbor using his leaf blower at 8am, or the person complaining the FedEx driver delivered their package with no mask on (seriously). So I shut off all Nextdoor notifications and only go on there when I am curious about something like you said, A late night explosion, helicopter, or if a business closed. It was good at first, but like every community it seems the later adopters tend to be the worst. Now there are a lot of the types that call the police/town on everything or hold petty grudges against others due to what they view as transgressions. Pretty much always older people. You would think that having their real name out there would increase civility and make people more careful, but no. I just think younger people (people much younger than me like Gen Z'ers) more understand the permanence of interactions online, and just are more tolerant of other people. Whenever I feel myself getting cranky, I remember what it was like to always have "that person" on your block.
- ghaff 6y ago
  >I found it is most useful to just use it as a "pull" resource and not allow it to push you anything. In all fairness, that could be said of approximately 99% of the apps and websites out there.

mark_l_watson 6y ago

Signed up for Nextdoor, but the noise level was not good. I muted everyone but our local Chief of Police. Ideally, local officials would have their own email list but then there is a discoverability problem. It is not that I hate Nextdoor, but I put effort into eliminating interruptions and noise in my life so I can concentrate on the people and things I love. The attention (and surveillance) economy makes a lot of money via non-obvious data use.

lonelappde 6y ago

It's a sign of the times that this article doesn't mention any FBI corruption investigation, which is is clearly necessary here.

zadkey 6y ago

I kept seeing a lot posts on Nextdoor from people who don't realize they are racist. An example post on was where someone was complaining about a strange black man walking through their neighborhood. Of course when you read the post carefully you would then come to realize, that this man was walking down the sidewalk, during the day, not bothering or talking to anyone, just minding his own business. The reality is there was nothing particularly strange about this black man. Nothing in her description explains what he did that made him strange. She likely just finds it strange that a black man is walking through their neighborhood. The other thing is these kinds of posts would always be followed up with someone along the lines of "keep an eye out for him" or "don't let him near your kids" or "call the police if you see him again" or that kind of fear-mongering nonsense. I was honestly downright surprised how racist some of these people are.

jeffbee 6y ago
One of the problems of Nextdoor's fear-based social network is that "crime and safety" topics are more widely distributed than general topics, so one racist anywhere in your city can poison the whole thing. And it's not just racism. For some reason violent drivers feel like it is a safe space to openly advocate for running down bicyclists and stuff like that.
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snarf21 6y ago
Agreed. Nextdoor's whole model is built around fear-mongering. It is despicable. This is where the "see something, say something" can go too far. A guy driving a van through your neighborhood could be a plumber and not a pedophile trying to kidnap your kids. There seems to be no sense of "suspicious activity" before these people start spewing nonsense. To be fair, this isn't unique to Nextdoor. My relative is a state police and they get calls for things you can't even imagine, like "my kid won't listen to me, can you scare them straight?" or "the neighbor mowed one strip over the line, make them stop!" It just sucks when companies set out to exploit this human characteristic for profit but hide behind the guise of "open platform". "We're just trying to help build stronger neighborhoods", yeah sure you are.

12xo 6y ago

This company is far more dangerous than FB. They masquerade as a public service but are nothing more than a data mining trick to cull PII from as many as possible. I have read it described as Twitter for old people, but to me, its where the dumbest and the most gullible seem to hang. Its really a site for 'Karen's' to whine and complain about the most asinine things... But its their underlying business model that is atrocious. IMHO its the worst social media outlet around.

mc32 6y ago
No doubt it’s a data vacuuming powerhouse. Likely on the level of Facebook... but they are not only about complainers. It’s like a town square. You get a heads up to what’s going on. Changes, news, public issues, etc. it’s useful but with some drawbacks.
- 12xo 6y ago
  My problem isnt the community, its the way they trick people into signing up and how they then collect and sell the data. Many people actually think ND is a public service. And this article is a big reason as to why that is... IMHO we should not have these types of entities in bed with local municipalities as it erodes both the public's trust and also undermines the sanctity of government.
  - beeskneecaps 6y ago
    It’s worth reading the privacy policy: https://legal.nextdoor.com/us-privacy-policy-2020/ https://legal.nextdoor.com/us-privacy-policy-2020/ Not seeing any PII disclosure.
    - 12xo 6y ago
      They collect and require your name and your actual home address (and they verify these) all as part of their required registration. What could be more PII than that? Seriously. What?

TallGuyShort 6y ago

>> Nextdoor and the public agencies it works with say that close ties between the social media platform and the government can help them both do their jobs better. The thing is, that's true. It's the way they're going about it and the fact that it's a messy public / private mix that raises ethical concerns. At some point we're going to need to rethink an official channel for government communications. Think about it: how dependent on social media have many of us been to find out the latest public health mandates? And how well do we feel like social media deals with fake news and fraud and privacy? The combination of those two is a big problem. There needs to be a better official communications platform. The US Postal Service was seen as very fundamental to the forming of its government. Now, ignoring the financial woes and plundering by Congress, and ignoring the very lousy and incompetent service you can get from it in some places, it just has fundamental limitations in cost, speed, level of non-repudiation, etc. It's largely become a subsidized junk mail / litter distribution network. It's how I'm supposed to get official correspondence from the IRS, but it's harder than it should be to know it REALLY came from the IRS, and to prove that I REALLY replied on time, and to actually work towards a resolution. We can't use it for all our elections because of (real or not) fraud concerns so we use more inconvenient forms of voting. If you need to take someone to court you can't trust it, so you have to pay for expensive process service. It doesn't get used to notify me of changes in laws that affect me, like I might get fined if I go to the park with my kids tomorrow. It can't be used to tell me that I can't park my car where I usually do in 72 hours because of time-sensitive maintenance, we instead pay someone to put a note on my door and hope it doesn't blow away. It's not great. The de facto solution? Rely on NextDoor and Facebook. And we get ethical dilemmas like this article. I really think at some point we need to declare some kind of Internet access a fundamental need as much as service by USPS (which is required to service every address) has been in the past, and not rely on private infrastructure for basic government services like this. As someone who tends to be libertarian and lives somewhat off-grid a lot of the time, I see the difficulties and fully expect that our government would screw up the execution of this. But at some point I think it's necessary and inevitable to at least try. The most basic functions of government could be done so much better.

crsv 6y ago

Nextdoor is quickly becoming a detestable social network experience. I've noticed that over the last year or so, it's almost exclusively negativity or fear based in its content. Most posts are either people complaining or tattling on something that is a minor nuisance at best or fear mongering for larger issues. I've seen very, very limited positive benefit from the platform. It strikes me as something that had great potential, but is just turning in to a cesspool as it grows.

beeskneecaps 6y ago
What are some of the things that you are hoping to see going on in your neighborhood?
- crsv 6y ago
  Information seeking, curiosity, chances to share in experience, people seeking help, people offering help, fellowship.
  - jpindar 6y ago
    I see those on my Nextdoor everyday.

danso 6y ago

As reported, it seems that Nextdoor has a non-disclosure agreement that – without determined legal pushback – all but guarantees a chilling effect on how gov't agencies respond to public records requests, including when Nextdoor data is used to tip police investigations: > In the terms of Nextdoor’s NDA, advisory council members are not allowed to release public statements about the partnership without the consent of Nextdoor, nor are they able to follow a court order to disclose any information deemed confidential by Nextdoor without alerting the company first. The document is the same one it gives to all business partners, the company said, and is meant to protect confidential information like product ideas. > ...Though there are few rules prohibiting them from signing such a document, the practice could help shroud government decisions from the public, says Guariglia from the Electronic Frontier Foundation. And the NDA’s “heads-up” clause could give agencies the leeway to alert the company before complying with freedom of information act requests. > After CityLab requested public records from Husted’s department, he alerted Nextdoor spokesperson Edie Campbell-Urban, though he said that he wasn’t doing so because of any terms of the NDA. When CityLab requested similar records from Kagarise, the county’s Office of Risk Management services informed CityLab that it was delaying its answer, in part because they were busy dealing with Covid-19. They said they would also be informing Nextdoor Inc. of the public records request, pursuant to a state law protecting third parties from information “not in the public interest” that would “substantially and irreparably damage” the third party or the government.

dx87 6y ago

I think the worst thing I've seen popping up on Nextdoor is quarantine zealots reporting people to the police for leaving the house for "non-essential" reasons. The most recent example I saw was a hairdresser using Nextdoor to schedule 1 on 1 house calls since they can't pay their bills due to the quarantine, and a busybody reported them because "millions of people will die if we don't stay inside". I don't know what ended up happening to the hairdresser though.

gerardnll 6y ago

Awful idea of a company we don't need as a society. If you want to connect with your neighbours go talk to them, go and plan something for the street/neighbourhood, participate in local festivities, buy in local stores. Human contact is what we need, no virtual substitutes. If there's an issue, solve it in person, speaking... Not to talk about tracking and privacy concerns.

beeskneecaps 6y ago
This makes sense for your immediate neighbors. It gets trickier to go door to door meeting your neighbors around the entire block for example. Especially during SIP! That’s where you probably want to meet your neighbors online then connect with them later offline.
- c22 6y ago
  You're living there so you could do one a week until you've met them all. Also, block parties are great.

mgkimsal 6y ago

My nextdoor story: A couple of years ago we got a post in our nextdoor group: "watch out - car burglary!". Paraphrasing here - "be aware - someone is breaking in to cars parked outside and taking stuff. they got our gun last night!" Another neighbor chimed in a day later with "yeah, got mine too!". There's only maybe 60 houses in the whole area, and... people are leaving guns in cars - one was unlocked. This was, to my view, nowhere near "responsible gun ownership" - regardless of your 2A views, it just seems like that behavior should be illegal. But... it's not (at least in our state). Over the last couple years, I've used it as a talking point when talking 'gun rights' stuff to people, and - surprisingly to me - I only get around 50% of "pro gun" people who agree with me that it's irresponsible behavior.

billme 6y ago
People tend to believe that they have no responsibility to not bait criminals, acknowledge fault if their actions enabled crimes, etc. Reason? Doing so would reduce their rights, increase their responsibilities, etc.
ReactiveJelly 6y ago
Elsewhere online, someone planned to "lose" their guns while fishing if the government ever wanted to take them. Who's gonna bother diving into a lake to prove one person is lying? In your case, it's even worse if the gun really was stolen - Now a "bad guy" has it. Most people can't even keep their Twitter passwords safe, much less a weapon. I would like for good and responsible people to own guns, if only I had ever met any good and responsible people.
waffle_ss 6y ago
How do you know the gun wasn't in one of those little portable safes? Or in a locked glove box? If I'm running errands around town, I can't bring my gun into certain businesses, or federal facilities like the post office. So it stays locked in my car, in a little lock box that is tethered to the metal seat base with steel cable (but the cable could be cut with big enough bolt cutters or an angle grinder). I see no problems keeping guns in cars as long as they're secured, but I agree if your neighbors hadn't either locked theirs up somehow then that's irresponsible.

SmallPeePeeMan 6y ago

I don’t understand the problem with law enforcement. Can someone explain the risks/problems? Because I’ve only ever used NextDoor to get referrals for plumbers, handymen, electricians, gardeners, etc.

SmallPeePeeMan 6y ago

What do cops get out of NextDoor? Please help me to understand

bob1029 6y ago

The worst part about this type of social network is the people it brings out of the woodwork. Those crazy assholes who live in your neighborhood who were otherwise confined to passive aggressive letters and shouting at you as you take down your trash now have the ability to band together with other asshole neighbors and get the police involved whenever they collectively feel an emotional response about something. How is this a good thing for those of us who want to be left the fuck alone? How do we put an end to this ridiculous nonsense?

Catsandkites 6y ago
As another person who mostly wants to be left the fuck alone as well: One of the internet's greatest gifts is the ability to communicate with so many people you would otherwise have never spoken to. One of its greatest curses is that all of the stupid people, who used to only ever be able to talk to the other X stupid people in their small area, can now talk to a world wide network of stupid people. Pushing each other to ever increasing levels of stupidity that inevitably spills out onto everyone else's lives. And unfortunately it seems there is no putting the genie back into the bottle.

A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago

I like Nextdoor. Its focus on 'hyper local' allows me to get recommendations for local businesses. I do have a problem with NDAs signed by my local elected officials. I would like to know what they are up to, thank you very much.

tinyhouse 6y ago

Initially I thought Nextdoor is a great idea. A place where you can get to know your neighbors, ask for recommendations for local labor, discover new restaurants that opened in town, etc. Like everyone already mentioned, the noise ratio made it hard to use and I quickly didn't bother to log in and canceled all notifications. Also, my town and all nearby towns have FB groups. It's not at a neighborhood level like in Nextdoor but most towns are not that big that it matters much. I'm not big on those groups either, but I'm assuming with good group moderators you can get the same or even greater value. In that sense Nextdoor is just a feature...

MivLives 6y ago
I used to live on a street that had our own Facebook group. It was all things like "They're inspecting trash cans on the sidewalk again, I threw all your trash cans up on your porches to avoid the fine" and "Tim's backyard bike shop is open again, stop by with a six pack for a tune up" I miss that street.

someonehere 6y ago

Nextdoor definitely has its share of racist sounding posts. A woman in my neighborhood said she came home late one night and parked a couple of blocks from her home. She was walking home and a younger black male was walking behind her. As she walked closer to her home she said she felt he was getting closer to her. She turned around and said “night tonight buddy!” really loud. She was convinced the guy was out to rape her. The only thing I like Nextdoor for is I can find neighbors in a day who I can sell or give away things I no longer need. It’s like Craigslist circa early 2000s in terms of genuine people who want to take it off your hands.

blululu 6y ago

I was pressured into signing up for NextDoor in order to participate in a local civic function. The whole experience felt very sketchy (ironic because a lot of the my neighborhood is people complaining about 'shady' characters). They had a slew of dark patterns in their sign up to try to get me to give out email addresses of friends so that they could be spammed with signup emails. The network is fine, but having public civic functions existing behind a closed wall owned by a private company is a really bad idea. Using Craigslist would be way less sketchy.

beeskneecaps 6y ago
Craigslist would not be where I would recommend operating civic functions.

shimylining 6y ago

I think it all depends on which location you are in. My location has been great especially during this time and people are offering help and also giving away food for the less abled.Also the other day there was something that sounded like gunshots, police were called and I found out it was nothing bad on nextdoor first than my local news site or twitter.

raiyu 6y ago

It's a tired saying, but no less, true if you aren't paying for it you are the product. There are no social platforms that are VC backed that aren't going to at some point resort to the lowest common denominator of making a buck at someone's expense. And when you aren't paying for the product, then you are no longer able to control that exchange. Google started off with Don't be Evil - now they force adverts from your competitors on your registered trademark and force you to advertise your own company name or lose customers - meanwhile for Google's products, no one can advertise in the same manner. Facebook - well - that one is too long to even dive into. Twitter - has done ok, sort of - but the problem with it's no policing policy is pretty rampant harassment that is also dealt with in an inconsistent manner. That's why paying for something you create an exchange where the company providing that service has an incentive to keep you happy, not some advertising company. There is also competition that will naturally spring up, competing for that dollar.

drdeadringer 6y ago

> in calmer times, Nextdoor has also been a hotbed of racial profiling and tattling. I've seen this on NextDoor myself. The most innocent Nosy Nancy post I saw was along the lines of: "Observed teenagers walking eastbound with backpacks. Suspicious. Took note, will call police." We live near a school. It was closing time. They were walking home. Add in the homeless in general, the Goodwill donation truck that seconds as a recycling center ["oh no, a homeless magnet!"], and so on and it's a real life NIMBY parody of 'Toxic Avenger'. My cynical side jokes as follows: * Twitter: Hate your heroes * Facebook: Hate your friends//family * NextDoor: Hate your neighbors I'm glad I don't NextDoor anymore, and I'm on the Twitter//Facebook//Reddit triumvirate if that says anything. NextDoor may not be a stone fence needing annual repair, but my noping out of it has tended toward better neighborly relationships.

1024core 6y ago

I wrote a post on Nextdoor, criticizing some of the decisions made by local officials. It got a few responses, and then a day or two later, silently disappeared. I didn't get any notification that it was gone; it had just been quietly deleted with no notification to me. If this is how Nextdoor chooses to behave, then it's useless to me. I've stopped using the app.

pnw_hazor 6y ago

My nextdoor community is pretty quiet, mostly people seeking handymen, landscapers, etc., lost and found pets, overall pretty quiet and boring. Every now and then there is flare up around some issue, such as, fireworks, junk cars, prowlers, and so on. But they are pretty minor compared to FB or Twitter. Few people engage in that behavior in my neighborhood nextdoor I guess. The city and police share out the same stuff they do on their facebook pages and official website.